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TOPIC: 10.5

10.5 09 Nov 2019 18:30 #102548

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So those ‘who know can’t say’ is the rule of the game.

But boy I’ve heard some interesting things lately.

If we are just talking rumors- what’s your personal favorite?

Mine is this: Fcpx on ipadOS
I would love the idea of fcpx on iPadOS.
And moving between desktop and iPad? Def what I’d like to do on a daily basis.

What’s your favorite rumor of 10.5?
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10.5 09 Nov 2019 22:16 #102554

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But boy I’ve heard some interesting things lately.


Where? Please report. Don’t miss an awful lot right now. How about a good ‘smart’ tracker?
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10.5 09 Nov 2019 22:42 #102555

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AV-Ultra wrote:
So those ‘who know can’t say’ is the rule of the game.

But boy I’ve heard some interesting things lately.

If we are just talking rumors- what’s your personal favorite?

Mine is this: Fcpx on ipadOS
I would love the idea of fcpx on iPadOS.
And moving between desktop and iPad? Def what I’d like to do on a daily basis.

What’s your favorite rumor of 10.5?

FCPX on the iOS? Why not OS X on the iPad?
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10.5 10 Nov 2019 01:00 #102563

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Mine is this: Fcpx on ipadOS
I would love the idea of fcpx on iPadOS.
And moving between desktop and iPad? Def what I’d like to do on a daily basis.


I think this topic is funny, but if you want to have fun editing on iPad check "Lumatouch" lumafusion for iOs it will export fcpxml by December and be compatible with FCPX10.5 that will come out at the same time ???? with "the jaw dropping " new features as they showed yesterday....for now you can use a VPN to edit via screen sharing on FCPX with your iPad . You can already use iMovie to start your edit and go to FCPX from there.
Just for fun evidently
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10.5 10 Nov 2019 01:12 #102564

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I guess I was just trying to start this as a fun wish list of things before the actual release.

See what matches up from user wants vs. release.

I’d also love a refreshed tracker- and port it to fcp.

To be honest if there was one feature I would wish for would be a front end to support csv, or the app numbers, to make titles and graphics driven from spreadsheets like dataclay templater and after effects.
Last Edit: 10 Nov 2019 01:12 by AV-Ultra.
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10.5 10 Nov 2019 01:26 #102568

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Does this software realize one of your wishes ?

apps.apple.com/app/csv-to-motn-generator/id1107329970?mt=12
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10.5 10 Nov 2019 05:57 #102573

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I would love to see support for Blackmagic RAW files. Resolve handles it wonderfully, and the color grading tools are excellent, but the editor leaves much to be desired.
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10.5 10 Nov 2019 07:13 #102574

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dgwvideo wrote:
I would love to see support for Blackmagic RAW files. Resolve handles it wonderfully, and the color grading tools are excellent, but the editor leaves much to be desired.

Yes! Why wouldn't they?

I bet most BM-camera-users would still grade in Resolve (it has a tracker and it has a more convenient CC workflow through nodes, no matter how good color has become in FCP). But many of them would start to edit in FCP, because no matter how good Resolves performance has become and how innovative they are in terms of editing (see cut page), they are still behind in this regard.
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10.5 10 Nov 2019 14:47 #102577

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That's my point exactly! As for why they wouldn't, who knows. It's currently available in Avid and PP, but so far not FCPX. Aside from FCPX having a better editing experience, many users have built a large arsenal of plugins and other editing tools that are not available in Resolve. So to me, having FCPX supporting .braw completely rounds out my workflow - especially over the last month with the new BMD Cinema 6K camera.
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10.5 10 Nov 2019 22:21 #102594

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I think it would depend on what you are editing and how well FCPX can playback the Blackmagic RAW files. Will FCPX need to transcode the video files? If so why use Blackmagic RAW video files? FCPX may or may not be the best option depending on the situation. I had read in another thread that playback of 4K from the GH5 is difficult even on a iMac Pro. I cannot comment on Avid's playback of Blackmaigc Raw files but Premiere Pro can playback a single layer of 4K video from the GH5 and Blackmagic Raw fairly easy but I have an i9 9900K and and RTX 2070. I am sure FCPX will support Blackmgic RAW at some point but will playback be choppy in FCPX making trans-coding part of the editing process? Having said that perhaps FCPX will playback Blackmagic Raw files with ease but only time will tell.

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10.5 11 Nov 2019 02:45 #102596

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The Blackmagic RAW player plays the files back on Mac OS pretty well, even with our Mid 2010 dual core tower. It is akin to Prores which allows playback smoothly of many difficult codecs. The reason I would like to see it supported in FCPX is because I prefer editing in FCPX versus other NLE's. Although the Cinema 6K can shoot a variety of Prores formats in a film profile (which is very good), the raw formats allow total manipulation in post and also offer varying compression and quantization of the video. In a few cases, the .braw file sizes can be significantly smaller than their Prores counterparts and can provide the best quality and the greatest control when color grading.
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10.5 11 Nov 2019 03:38 #102599

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dgwvideo wrote:
The Blackmagic RAW player plays the files back on Mac OS pretty well, even with our Mid 2010 dual core tower. It is akin to Prores which allows playback smoothly of many difficult codecs. The reason I would like to see it supported in FCPX is because I prefer editing in FCPX versus other NLE's. Although the Cinema 6K can shoot a variety of Prores formats in a film profile (which is very good), the raw formats allow total manipulation in post and also offer varying compression and quantization of the video. In a few cases, the .braw file sizes can be significantly smaller than their Prores counterparts and can provide the best quality and the greatest control when color grading.

I don't doubt the RAW files playback just fine using Blackmagic's RAW player but that does not mean FCPX will playback the files. From what I have heard DR can playback the Blackmagic Raw files better than Premiere Pro but I cannot say for sure since I have not tested it out thus far. Having said that Premiere Pro can playback Blackmagic Raw files fairly easy. How well does Avid handle BlackMagic Raw files? I am not sure. As of now Premiere Pro and Avid are kind of using a plugin from BMD to make it work. The reason I made mention of playback is because some people had stated when using an iMac Pro they still have to trans-code video files from the GH5. My system can playback the GH5 video files without trans-coding them. Having said that we will not know the playback performance of the Blackmagic Raw in FCPX until FCPX supports the codec. Different editing system will probably playback different video files better than others. I did not think moving forward in 2013 we would get video codecs that would be harder to playback then the RED ONE R3D video files but some of them are indeed harder to playback as seen in the video below. I wish the Red Camera Company would just license out their R3D video coded to Sony, Nikon, Canon etc for a buck each camera. They would make millions.

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10.5 11 Nov 2019 04:12 #102600

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I would expect that since the OS handles it using the RAW player, then any plugin optimized for .braw would also be OK. Also, I have been shooting 4K DCI with this camera which struggles just a bit at 600+ Mbps and BRAW offers a variety of much lower bitrates. This, in addition to a few frame sizes that are only available in RAW mode is why many people will choose BMD RAW with this camera.
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10.5 11 Nov 2019 04:44 #102601

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dgwvideo wrote:
I would expect that since the OS handles it using the RAW player, then any plugin optimized for .braw would also be OK. Also, I have been shooting 4K DCI with this camera which struggles just a bit at 600+ Mbps and BRAW offers a variety of much lower bitrates. This, in addition to a few frame sizes that are only available in RAW mode is why many people will choose BMD RAW with this camera.

There is a huge difference between a video player and editing software. Are you saying that on the Mac OS that FCPX, Premiere Pro, Avid and DR will all playback 6K BRAW at full resolution and full frame rate without dropping frames or will each NLE have a tad bit different playback results? Keep in mind Premiere Pro likes Cuda more than Metal or Open CL but Apple does not want to support Nvidia. Having said that I don't doubt FCPX can probably playback Pro Res better than Avid, DR and Premiere Pro.

I agree camera RAW is great if your NLE can edit the RAW video file as opposed to trans-coding to Pro Res. I was surprised that the GH5 video files were much harder to playback than the Red One R3D video files so I can see why some FCPX user would need to trans-code to Pro Res. FCPX might play the BRAW just fine but only time will tell.
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10.5 11 Nov 2019 06:36 #102603

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First of all, the poor playback of GH5 10-bit All-i, said by Panasonic to be more edit-friendly, shows in other NLEs too, whereas long GOP files are okay.

The PP plugin for BRAW allegedly messes up the timecode and therefore you can’t call this solution “support”. Edius officially accepts BRAW, but you’d need to go down to 1/16 resolution (same with PRAW, which is ridiculous).

Maybe FCP would need to wrap BRAW to fully support it (what with that sidecar folder BRAW uses). With what consequences for external post? Who knows.

However, if PRAW can give you an inkling of how BRAW would behave or feel in FCPX: doesn’t it just appear like a somewhat more forgiving image compared to ordinary 8-bit 420? There doesn’t seem to be a fundamental difference when you change exposure or color temperature. It doesn’t feel like RAW.

I suspect the reason for this may be that there are no dedicated tools like in ACR or (to a lesser degree) DR’s CR. Is there really a difference in changing exposure in a special module compared to, say, doing it in the Color Board?
Last Edit: 11 Nov 2019 07:25 by Axel.
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10.5 11 Nov 2019 09:50 #102608

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Axel wrote:
First of all, the poor playback of GH5 10-bit All-i, said by Panasonic to be more edit-friendly, shows in other NLEs too, whereas long GOP files are okay.

I suspect the reason for this may be that there are no dedicated tools like in ACR or (to a lesser degree) DR’s CR. Is there really a difference in changing exposure in a special module compared to, say, doing it in the Color Board?

I was sent two video files from the GH5. The one file played super easy the other was a lot harder to playback but my system could still do it at full resolution where as Premiere Pro on the iMac Pro could not play it back at all from what I had read. Having said that everyone will have different specs. It is good to compare results don't you think?

Is there a difference form a module VS the FCPX Color Board? The Red One Camera company has a player for their video codec. Just because a laptop can play it back in the Red One player does not necessarily mean Edius or Avid will play it back. I am sure most FCPX users thought any video file from the GH5 would playback easy in FCPX. I would have thought that to be the case but you don't know until you test it out. As I stated FCPX might play BRAW with ease but we will not for sure until FCPX can make use of the video files. I will say that BRAW support would be nice even if it requires a fairly high-end system for playback at full resolution. CPUs and GPUs will get better and better and the new Mac Pro will be here soon.
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10.5 11 Nov 2019 10:45 #102610

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@arc
You are right, of course.

I'd say Apple would be ill-advised to support a codec they can't play back smoothly. I can't imagine, though, that it would be very hard. Some downloads of BRAW felt about as performant in DR 16 as the PRAW downloads felt in FCP (10-20 sec. clips of course prove very little).

Yes, everybody has different specs. But if you are familiar with the *official* Edius video announcing BRAW and PRAW support, and if you further read how ridiculously maxed out the systems are on which they only get realtime with rough draft quality (with the exact same 10-20 sec. demo clips !!!), systems whose specs suggest they should be easily two times faster than my 2015 iMac, then you can figure out that it might be less a specs related issue than a configuration related.

And it's unfair to compare with Premiere, which suffers from an ancient source code. The BM plugin has the player and the raw module sitting in a framework that doesn't fully understand the plugin. Or so it seems:

forums.creativecow.net/docs/forums/post....ostid=991047&pview=t

autokroma.com/blog/BRAW-Wrong-Timecode-Adobe-Premiere-Pro/

The second thread offers a "solution" of sorts, but note how it is a limited one in a way that a typical FCP user couldn't find acceptable:

Could the timecode return back to its wrong value after a correction ?

Sadly, yes. If the clip is getting offlined, the timecode will be wrong again. (And after relinking also). So you will need to click on the panel’s button again.

Also, there could be a shift issue when relinking your clip if you have the “Align Timecode” activated. Please read our article about this issue for more precisions

Special cases

Proxies

Even when you correct the timecode before creating the proxy, the timecode of the proxy file will be wrong.

But if you have your proxy file linked with the original braw file, then you will be able to correct the timecode of the source like any normal BRAW source without proxy attached.

Merged clips

Merging Clip is a feature of Premiere Pro which is often used to link Video with Audio. The best thing to do is to correct the timecode before to merge the clips (note : even by beeing offlined, the timecode will stay good !). Be careful, once the clips are merged, it’s impossible to set their timecode in Premiere Pro !

The typical Premiere user doesn't use proxies. One reason is that Premiere was always *proud* to be able to edit with native files. This pride has survived to this day, although Premiere doesn't perform particularly well in comparison to FCP or DR.

The proxy workflow of Premiere is actually very smart (proxies are being generated by AME in the background, and you do not have to strictly switch between them, you can instead click a button that lets you prefer proxies - just for playback!). But as the example with the timecode not being updated for proxies shows, there are dealbreaking obstacles. You can't interpret the framerate of a proxy clip copy, and if you switch to original to do it there, the change isn't reflected in the proxy. That's why, though I often complain about FCP's proxy workflow, I'm nonetheless grateful for what I have.
Last Edit: 11 Nov 2019 10:48 by Axel.
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10.5 11 Nov 2019 15:00 #102614

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arc wrote:
Are you saying that on the Mac OS that FCPX, Premiere Pro, Avid and DR will all playback 6K BRAW at full resolution and full frame rate without dropping frames or will each NLE have a tad bit different playback results?

No, certainly not on my system because the 6K BRAW files are 12 bit 4444 (6144 x 3456) , but I am not concerned with playing back full resolution clips without skipping frames at this point. I would just like to edit them in FCPX by using proxies which should be sufficient. Maybe the brand new MAC Pro would handle full res playback???
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