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TOPIC: Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ?

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 20 Aug 2013 04:48 #30140

  • cseeman
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Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
not everyone is going to like the result, whatever the combination of the above it is.

Somehow I think that's almost the safest bet. Personally I think more likely, rather than a paid repurchase the dropping of Snow Leopard support and maybe some older hardware. Apple benefits a lot more by forcing users to buy new hardware than re-purchasing FCPX. Imagine if they could force all those using early MacPros into buying new MacPro or, otherwise, top BTO iMacs, and forcing those on Core2Duo systems to buy new MacBookPros. That would also push another round of users into the Thunderbolt era.

I see Apple making bigger gains and less wrath going that route than a new FCPX purchase. Certainly those with old hardware will curse but they'll get far less sympathy than complaints from those who toughed it out as early adopters, having to buy the app again.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 20 Aug 2013 07:11 #30144

  • NocoDave
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It implies as some posters confirmed that the customer is entitled to a free update until he/she is satisfied with the product.

Consumer rights laws state that if you are not satisfied with a product you are in the right.
There is a 30 day trial period. Don't like it don't buy it.

Not when FCPX was first released there wasn't. But this isn't so relevant, as the Apple are well aware of consumers right laws and offer a refund on products purchased from the Mac App Store within a reasonable and lawful time.
If you did and as it happened until now all updates including feature additions are free for 2 years for $300 I think you have a good deal.

This is where the issue lies, different people are looking for different things, I personally would have been much happier if Apple had first concentrated on completing the features in the initial release, to be honest I'd have been even happier if they had done so before release.

I never paid, or asked, for any of the new features, I paid for what features were first available. And I don't see why I shouldn't get them for what I have already paid.

Personally I don't think Apple will charge for the next update, but I could well be wrong.

Here is the biggest issue for me. When a company charges for a new update/version they should have left the previous buyers with a fully working version of what they already have. Currently FCPX is not that.

The consumer needs to have the choice as whether to pay for the new version, or whether to stick with the version they have in a fully working state, they paid for it already and it should work.

I'd be most happy if 10.1, or 10.91 had no new features and it turned out the development team had been spending all this time polishing up here and there, finishing off what already exists, and perhaps increasing the functionality of the potential held in the magnetic timeline.

That way we would, for the first time, have a product that would be considered complete in it's current state. That would be the moment when we first had a complete foundation where we could continue with a proper update structure.
Last Edit: 20 Aug 2013 07:13 by NocoDave. Reason: typos
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 20 Aug 2013 09:12 #30148

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audionstudio wrote:
Seanus wrote:
if I want to trim a shot but have the underlying audio tracks all stay in place or move in the opposite direction it's very difficult.

Have you tried the "P" button as "position" to trim? It's just a drag&drop step.

Not in the Precision Editor it isn't.

Don't need to watch any tutorials I've been using the software since launch. ;)
Sean Lander - Editing since 1982 - AVID 1991 - FCP 1999 - FCPX 2011
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 20 Aug 2013 10:41 #30154

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Sidetrack: Seanus, why do you have to use the precision editor?

As said before if you double click the audio part to expand you can trim the video independently. I mapped the expand audio to option-s so I can lasso 2 or more clips and expand at once. Using the trim tool I can roll or ripple leaving the audio as is. Or I only trim the audio. Option-c is mapped to collapse all. Option-e is mapped to expand all.

I only use the precision editor when I want to see what comes after/before the cut in a clip without needing to match frame. Otherwise I find the precision editor unnecessary. That said for the 'look under the hood' it's perfect.

Ok back to the question: Still would pay for the update unless Apple brings back tracks!!! ;)
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 20 Aug 2013 19:53 #30167

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Side track: I don't use the precision editor because its a piece of junk. ;)
But it would be nice if FCP X had a trim mode that was comparable to AVID's.

Back on track: I would happily pay all over again for FCP X if it had the features I wanted.
Like a useful trim mode. :woohoo:
Sean Lander - Editing since 1982 - AVID 1991 - FCP 1999 - FCPX 2011
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 20 Aug 2013 21:04 #30170

Ultimately for me is not about what I feel the software "should" have had. If it's been productive and profitable, then it's paid for itself hundreds of times over. Otherwise (as others have said) I would have stopped using it long ago.

More important that "would you pay" is "Will Apple charge?"

On one hand we have 2 year old software presumably due for a big update, bring with it lots of improvements and features- very likely going beyond "restoring" legacy functionality. That's valuable.

On the other hand we have the PR value of releasing a major update to the software for free. Obviously Apple's financial future doesn't hinge on selling FCPX updates to those of us already using it. But a greatly improved 10.1, in the hands of all those people who purchased but who aren't using it- could be a bigger deal. Broader adoption across the industry would certainly be a greater benefit than upgrades from the existing pool of users.

I wouldn't have any issue with paying the $299. But I can see the platform benefiting much more from the goodwill gesture.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 20 Aug 2013 22:45 #30186

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Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
The fact that we know an update is coming is more that you can usually expect from Apple. If Schiller hadn't made that casual comment during the MacPro keynote, we'd really be biting our nails after 10.0.9 (the 3rd maintenance release in a row) was released.

Ever since they released the first update and called it 10.0.1 I knew that 10.1 would be a big update and also be a paid update. I know this because I use a Mac and it's the exact same thing they do with their OS. They do it because they are in love with the letter X and they want to keep calling it FCP X instead of FCP XI or FCP 11. Does anyone call it Final Cut Pro Ten? I always say Final Cut Pro Eks and Mac OS Eks. It makes more sense to me because we are definitely still not on OS 10. It also pisses off Mac cultists and that causes me a lot of amusement. But I do look forward to seeing what they do for OS 11 which will come after Mavricks or whatever dumb name they gave it.
Last Edit: 20 Aug 2013 22:47 by Redifer.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 00:23 #30191

Yup. The parallel to OSX was immediately apparent once that first update came out. And I completely agree that my first instinct is that it will be a paid update. However, I have heard the free thing bandied about by people who's opinion I trust- not that it's a sure thing, but I wouldn't discount the possibility is all I'm saying...

For instance, there's been rumors that Mavericks could be free. OSX updates have been dropping in price steadily for years now. Mountain Lion was only $19.99. At this point I could see them either going $9.99 or FREE. Apple is very keen to drive OS adoption. And free OS upgrades have certainly had that effect on the iOS platform.

There are also rumors are also that iWork could become a free suite bundled with iCloud.

Apple's software has always been commoditized as a way to drive hardware sales.

It could be completely off base- but the theory that Apple could forgo a $299 FCPX upgrade as a means to drive sales of their professional computers is not completely insane.
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2013 00:24 by Disproportionate Pictures.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 06:28 #30204

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It could be completely off base- but the theory that Apple could forgo a $299 FCPX upgrade as a means to drive sales of their professional computers is not completely insane.

While watching the new Mac Pro announcement it crossed my mind that a pro app bundle could work being supplied with it in the way iLife was before. But then I started thinking of how iLife was no longer included as Apple lost interest in supplying physical DVD's and put their apps on the App Store.

It would be king of strange to see FCPX free on the App Store while iMovie costs. I suppose it would be easy enough for them to supply an App Store code in the same way as they do when they sell new computers that come bundled with previous OS versions, for the new OS version.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 09:55 #30205

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Unless something has changed iMovie is included free on the Mac. People with older Macs can buy the newest version (which hasn't been fully updated for a few years).

I don't think it's unreasonable that Apple might decide for a "Pro" machine, that FCPX would be included and that users of previous users would pay for the new version.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 09:58 #30206

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I thought they stopped including iLife when they put the apps individually on the App Store.

I think it would be a good move to give the pro apps free with the Mac Pro/Mac Book Pro and ilife with the iMac/Mac Book Air.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 10:52 #30208

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iMovie and iPhoto still included with every Mac purchase although neither has had a major upgrade since 2009 I believe. Those with older Macs have to buy the newer versions or get a new computer with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple went the same route with FCPX

On the other hand, Pages has always been paid, yet, I have the new iCloud Beta version of Pages and wouldn't be surprised if that remained free on the iCloud.

After all, Apple really wants us to buy hardware.

Given the high price some are speculating about the new MacPro and the ongoing prices of the Retina models it certainly would be an incentive.

Given where iPhoto sits in the US App Store 8th Top Paid, 9th top grossing, there would seem to be a lot of Macs predating 2009 still in use.

BTW interesting note that FCPX is 16th Top Paid ahead of iMovie 17th... of course many people don't need to buy iMovie as it's still free on new Macs.

FCPX is 4th Top Grossing while iMovie is 19th reflecting it's free status on new computers plus the obvious major price difference.

All things considered it could make business sense for Apple to include FCPX on new MacPros (and 15" MBP Retina as well IMHO) to incentivize new purchases.
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2013 10:53 by cseeman.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 11:37 #30212

I don't think FCPX will be free on new Pro Machines. I only meant that it might be a free upgrade. New users would still have to purchase at the regular price. I think Apple could conceilvably have more to gain in PR and hardware purchases by doing that.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 11:47 #30213

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There's no way to do a free "upgrade" (purchase) in the app store short of a coupon code. I can't imagine Apple getting involved with distributing coupon codes to current owners.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 12:02 #30214

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Of course I would be happy to pay for a next major update. FCPX has been the best money-maker we ever had in our company, so why would I complain?

But something Craig said made me think: All things considered it could make business sense for Apple to include FCPX on new MacPros (and 15" MBP Retina as well IMHO) to incentivize new purchases.

Some time ago we received notice that we could apply for an FCPX business purchase plan (20 seats). I am perfectly sure the offer mentioned that such a business purchase (299 per seat) would include free updates for the next three years (trying to find that text now). As we only had 10 seats at that time I didn't go for it.

So today I checked the business purchase plan again on the Apple site and I see no mention anymore about the three year free updates. This would indeed indicate that Apple has been rethinking its pricing policy for FCPX. What this will really mean for the next major FCPX update remains to be seen, as with anything Apple B)
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 13:03 #30216

cseeman wrote:
There's no way to do a free "upgrade" (purchase) in the app store short of a coupon code. I can't imagine Apple getting involved with distributing coupon codes to current owners.

Sure there is Craig. There's nothing stopping Apple from releasing 10.1 just like they released 10.0.9. Existing users would be able to upgrade and new users would need to purchase.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 13:39 #30218

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I think Apple knows that they need some major features in an update to justify charging for it but seeing as they haven't done any major feature updates in the last few revisions, I imagine that's on the cards. I also imagine they have been streamlining the underlying coding to better integrate features that were rushed out asap after the response to the initial version. Would I pay for an upgrade? If there were features there that warranted it, the answer is yes. I'm still having conversations with other editors who think FCPX is iMovie Pro and I do my best to point out how wrong they are (it's easy to have a negative opinion of software you haven't looked at). FCPX functions differently and it was painful relearning but now I hate going back. Some people feel threatened by that need to change (and also think they can somehow wing it without consulting the manual or tutorials - something that prevents them using it properly).

As for the lack of controllable features in filters, I don't have a problem with that. If I want to adjust a default filter I can open it once in Motion, publish the parameters I want to be able to change and save it. It's a one-time operation and it takes ten minutes. I would urge those unfamiliar with Motion to learn it as it will open up things massively. I see it in this context as a dedicated tool for building plugins for FCPX. Not to mention the fact that there are tons of plugins people are creating and sharing for free or virtually free. Personally, I found the filters in FCP7 clunky as you didn't have the ability to see in realtime the effects of the changes you made. The only filter I miss is my 3 way colour wheel.

As for features I'd like to see - I'd like to see roles work better. I want to be able to highlight clips in a timeline according to a role and chose to affect them globally for things like grading, filters, audio, etc. I'd also like better management for projects, an audio mixer, motion roundtripping, media management with handles and batch export. Also they could improve that clunky video controls on the clip where it opens up vertically and always pops out of the timline - fading video on in/out point of clips should be as easy as it is for audio.

Think that's it ;-)
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2013 13:41 by robertdee.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 13:54 #30220

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Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
cseeman wrote:
There's no way to do a free "upgrade" (purchase) in the app store short of a coupon code. I can't imagine Apple getting involved with distributing coupon codes to current owners.

Sure there is Craig. There's nothing stopping Apple from releasing 10.1 just like they released 10.0.9. Existing users would be able to upgrade and new users would need to purchase.

That would be an update, not a paid upgrade. Why state that. The debate was whether it would be a paid upgrade. It would be simpler to just say there would be no paid upgrade. They could just as easily call it 10.0.10 then.
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 14:28 #30224

As you say, there are only the two options right now.

1. Paid update (meaning a new FCPX 10.1 application in the store since there are no paid upgrades yet)

2. Free update (10.1, 10.0.10, or whatever it would be called as an update like have been getting them up to now)

Lets not forget that 10.1.0 is as much an internal identifier of development as it is anything to do with paid vs not. Even if it's free, 10.1 could represent foundational changes that merit the .1

Direct profit has never seemed to me to be the goal of Apple regarding it's Pro apps. Early on, Apple was very likely nervous about companies like Adobe, AVID, Discreet et al walking away from the Mac platform at the nadir of it's popularity. Internal development of Pro Audio/Video applications kept Pros on Macs, and likely kept the other companies on them as well. It was certainly a cutthroat move to release a Video application at under $2,000 back with FCP1 was released.

And again with FCPX, by lowering the price to $299 (though that's for a single application). Apple's business model is to commoditize software for the purpose of selling hardware. Everyone is doing this across the tech industry nowadays. Amazon commoditizes Kindle hardware to sell content. Google commoditizes software AND hardware to gather user data and sell ads. It's a very messy business.

And like I said, it's entirely possible that OSX and iWork apps could be made free incentives to being part of the Apple ecosystem.

To that end, 10.1 could be a special case of mending a damaged brand. A solid release that gets great reviews- free to early adopters and those who downloaded but don't use it as part of their workflow, and attracting new purchases.

This is all spitballing, and 10.1 could very well likely be $299 and I'd be happy to pay it.

As I say... I've just... heard things...
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Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 21 Aug 2013 14:41 #30227

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Even though I'm only a one man show I do my business with a lot of people worldwide with support for workflows (not hardware related in most cases)
A paid update which would bring XML up to a level which is somehow close to the FCP 7 levels would be a no brainer for most people I know -- and bring some back.

-Andreas
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2013 14:44 by Andreas Kiel.
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