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TOPIC: FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION

FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 17:55 #31650

  • Darren Roark
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I am guessing they won't charge for the update only because at this point there are no paid upgrading options on the Mac App Store at this time.

If on the same day they announce that you can pay for an upgrade to software, then I'm sure they will charge. But it will really upset all the developers who haven't been able to charge for updates. The people who made dJay cut the v2.0 price in half, but it was a standalone purchase. If you didn't own v1.0 for $20, you could still buy v2.0 for $10.

Also FCP X is here to sell Macs. Right now, FCP X runs best on specific models of the iMac, not the currently available Mac Pros. Why would they add a surcharge to people who own FCP X and want to get the new Mac Pro?

Lastly, Apple has a long game going here. I think they are making this as easy and as inexpensive for as many people to have the latest and greatest version of X. Aside from cosmetics, 10.0 to 10.0.9 functionally is a totally different NLE, and none of us have paid a cent in over two years.

Had they released 10.0.9 two years ago, they would have had much less backlash to contend with. I don't think they will charge because they are still trying to regain lost ground, and handing a bill to people who are still on the fence would be a mistake.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 18:56 #31654

Forget upgrade pricing. It doesn't exist in the Mac appStore. Apple won't make a special exception for themselves.

If Apple charges for FCPX 10.1 it will be like you are buying a new application. Like Logic Pro9 to Logic Pro X.

You have to put this in the context that 10.1 is like moving from FinalCutStudio 2 to 3- this will be the first MAJOR revision to the software. There was a $500 charge for FCS upgrades.

Here both the initial price was cheaper, AND the "upgrade" (or full cost) price is cheaper. Yes, FCS was an entire suite of programs, but even if you include Motion and Compressor (assuming they are also upgraded), your total cost of upgrading is still only $400.

A major update for free would be completely out of character for Apple as a company. You could argue there are special circumstances with FCPX, but you're best to set all that aside and assume the most obvious thing- Apple will charge for a major update to the software. If Apple decided to be magnanimous and bestow a huge free update it will be a massive surprise to me; and I'll happy take it. But I wouldn't put any money on it.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 19:18 #31655

  • tpayton
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I for one have made a bit more than $299 on client projects because of FCPX. If it saved me just 2.5 hrs in the past 2 years then it's paid for. I'll bet I save 2.5hrs a week not rendering.

I remember, I paid $300 for 1 HDCAM tape and the transfer of it to ProRes for a single short project a few years ago.

I would guess that this will not just be an incremental update but will add significant new features—they have been working on this for an entire year—and will justify the cost.

If you are a pro and make money from this thing, then you will happily pay $299 for the new version. Of course if I was a student, then $299 is a lot to swallow.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 19:21 #31656

  • Darren Roark
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Remember they did make an exception for themselves on the Mac App Store for FCP X, they allowed refunds.

Before they only really charged for a FCP 2-3 or 4 upgrade. (I can't remember if they charged for 4.5 'HD' but I think they did because of the DVCPRO HD license.) OS X Tiger to Leopard was $100, now it's $20.

Even though nearly all the missing features are back, the opinion of many professionals is still that Final Cut Pro X is iMovie Pro and isn't for professional work. If they do charge for 10.1 as a whole new app, it wouldn't help their case convincing the still very vocal critics to change their minds. I'm betting they don't charge extra until they gain more ground simply because they don't have to.

During the legacy FCP days, they didn't have all that extra iPhone money to pay for loss leaders like
this. I'm betting in order to take advantage of any performance improvements of 10.1, you will need a new Mac Pro, which is why I think they won't charge for the update.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 19:39 #31658

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"If you are a pro and make money from this thing, then you will happily pay $299 for the new version."

VERY good point to bear in mind.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 19:43 #31661

  • Darren Roark
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BenB wrote:
"If you are a pro and make money from this thing, then you will happily pay $299 for the new version."

I agree completely. It's saved me $299 worth of time every month this past year. Yes, I'd be happy to pay it again.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 19:56 #31663

Darren Roark wrote:
Remember they did make an exception for themselves on the Mac App Store for FCP X, they allowed refunds.

That's not a feature of the appStore, Apple simply credited that $299 back to the purchasers iTunes account. there's no mechanism for upgrade pricing and there's no way for them to implement it as a one off.

Darren Roark wrote:
Before they only really charged for a FCP 2-3 or 4 upgrade. (I can't remember if they charged for 4.5 'HD' but I think they did because of the DVCPRO HD license.) OS X Tiger to Leopard was $100, now it's $20.

With VERY few exceptions, major Final Cut upgrades were always paid.

Darren Roark wrote:
Even though nearly all the missing features are back, the opinion of many professionals is still that Final Cut Pro X is iMovie Pro and isn't for professional work. If they do charge for 10.1 as a whole new app, it wouldn't help their case convincing the still very vocal critics to change their minds. I'm betting they don't charge extra until they gain more ground simply because they don't have to.

Whether Apple wants to engage in that conversation at all is the question. More likely they will be quite happy to simply let the software mature and be evaluate for what it is- vs what some people think they are owed. The critics will always find reasons for it not to be for them, and therefore not "professional".

Darren Roark wrote:
During the legacy FCP days, they didn't have all that extra iPhone money to pay for loss leaders like
this.

FCPX is no loss-leader. FCP X is currently the 16th best selling (numbers) app in the App Store & 4th top grossing.

Darren Roark wrote:
I'm betting in order to take advantage of any performance improvements of 10.1, you will need a new Mac Pro, which is why I think they won't charge for the update.

I don't see it. There's obvious benefits to running any software on a really powerful machine, but Apple isn't going to streamline an update exclusively for a machine that only 5% of the customer-base will be using.


I think the more likely, but controversial, possibility is that FCPX will be exclusive to Mavericks. I'm up in the air on whether that will actually be the case, but I think it's more likely that Mavericks optimizations will outstrip MacPro exclusive functionality.
Last Edit: 27 Sep 2013 19:59 by Disproportionate Pictures.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 19:56 #31664

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Darren Roark wrote:
Even though nearly all the missing features are back, the opinion of many professionals is still that Final Cut Pro X is iMovie Pro and isn't for professional work. If they do charge for 10.1 as a whole new app, it wouldn't help their case convincing the still very vocal critics to change their minds. I'm betting they don't charge extra until they gain more ground simply because they don't have to.

Apple did offer refunds after the launch, but I think that was more a product of a horrible product launch than it was of Apple's lack of confidence in FCP X. I don't think they're giving much credence at this point (if they ever did) to those critics that have invested in the notion that Final Cut Pro is 'iMovie Pro'. If anything, NOT charging for a major update could help to prolong that sentiment more than it would to dismiss it.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 21:36 #31667

  • jakekeller
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I think what will be most interesting is how Apple has decided to compete with Adobe Anywhere and Avid's InterPlay Sphere. At $299 for a major update that has that type of feature set/functionality, am I crazy to think that they would explode the market? Anywhere has been around for a little bit now and considering that Apple has seen both companies features in action, it's likely that they would end up releasing a feature like this now. Has anyone weighed in on this yet? Collaboration has been one of the biggest issues with FCPX for some people.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 21:46 #31669

Both Avid and Adobe's cloud editing solutions are very "big iron". You need to have some very specific server-side stuff going to to stream the media.

Whether Apple will decide to compete in this space or not is a big question. I think they have a bit more work to do on FCPX itself, then local server groups before we'll see anything from them in this space.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 27 Sep 2013 22:10 #31670

  • Scrubelicious
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I can see Apple doing a (i)Cloud solution to Final Cut Pro X it would fit right up there ally. Specially since Steve Jobs had a cloud computing concept in mind since NeXT. Apple has raised up some Serve infrastructure the past years who knows? But I would rather see them adding a feature to use and cloud solution like Copy.com or Dropbox.
Besides of all that I like to see more work done for Motion and Compressor.
And I'm still waiting for a spectrum analyzer!
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 07:42 #31680

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Does anyone know enough about Mavericks to figure if there are any new tools or technologies in it that would actually benefit FCP X?
Last Edit: 28 Sep 2013 07:46 by BenB.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 11:14 #31687

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This might seem a bit desperate, but for those looking for signs of a 10.1 beta programme, Noise Industries have updated FxFactory from 4.0.9 to 4.1.

www.noiseindustries.com/support/fxfactory410/

FxFactory is their plugin creation and management system. As well as making plugins for Final Cut, Motion, After Effects and Premiere, it can be used for free by those using plugins from Luca Visual FX, Tokyo and Squid FX amongst others.

They update it often - especially when new third-party plugins need large resources. A few days ago they released an update to 4.1. The difference this time is that there are no new features:
FxFactory 4.1 brings performance improvements and bug fixes.

The stretch: I wonder if the (probably) very few people in the Beta programme for 10.1 have found bugs in FxFactory working with the next version of Final Cut Pro X. Perhaps new plugins that require 10.1 also needed an update to FxFactory to work properly.

Given that those who know can't say, all we can do and wait and see...

@Alex4D
Last Edit: 28 Sep 2013 11:26 by alex4D.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 13:08 #31689

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BenB wrote:
Does anyone know enough about Mavericks to figure if there are any new tools or technologies in it that would actually benefit FCP X?

There is to really anything new that will make a online sharing solution easier or possible.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 13:40 #31692

alex4D wrote:
The stretch: I wonder if the (probably) very few people in the Beta programme for 10.1 have found bugs in FxFactory working with the next version of Final Cut Pro X. Perhaps new plugins that require 10.1 also needed an update to FxFactory to work properly.

Given that those who know can't say, all we can do and wait and see...

@Alex4D

Outside of the men in black suits who are Apple industry beta-testers who have the wherewithal to stay quiet and remain anonymous, I think the list of 3rd party developers who've had early access to betas before and therefor should be watched are FXFactory, BlackMagic, RED, IA, and X2Pro.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 13:53 #31693

I just wanted to follow up on the discussion on this page to say it's great debating different ideas on this release. Apple can be difficult to read, but in hindsight they're actions often seem obvious. Take the iPhone5c for example. Everyone thought Apple was going to introduce a "cheap" phone- when it really should have been obvious from the last 10+ years that Apple isn't interested in playing in the cheap end of the pool as far as hardware is concerned.

The good news here is that I think all our prognosticating will be over soon. All indications seem to be we'll have whatever 10.1 is within the next 30 days. Then we can look back and berate each-other for what we got right or wrong.

So to keep things lively- here's a nice 2-part question for everyone to answer.

1. What is YOUR #1 feature request.

2. What is the #1 thing you think Apple has focused on.


For me-

1. Project Timeline organization.

2. Project/Event database improvements.
Last Edit: 28 Sep 2013 13:53 by Disproportionate Pictures.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 15:45 #31704

  • Karsten Schlüter
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Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
… 
1. What is YOUR #1 feature request.
2. What is the #1 thing you think Apple has focused on.

very tiny wish:
#1) used (parts of) clips marked automatically … what iMovie has for ~ 4 years!

I guess, for 'fabs' most important is:
#2) "collaboration" - 'multi client'-LAN-editing, versioning, simultaneous editing, 'live' swap/share/processing to/with Motion, Logic … 


and as a hobbyists wet dream, I'd like to see:
'3D' … (not as in 3D-film, but) 3D effects, 3D titles, Mocha for the rest of us, import of Maya/4D/Max/… models, basic rendering/3D lighting

What I phrased some weeks ago as "The Return Of The Chrome Titles" :woohoo:

Killer-Marketing stunt: The ads for the 5C ('fluids') are done with … naw, too crazy. :blink:
Last Edit: 28 Sep 2013 15:49 by Karsten Schlüter.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 15:53 #31706

  • plysat
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Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
So to keep things lively- here's a nice 2-part question for everyone to answer.

1. What is YOUR #1 feature request.

2. What is the #1 thing you think Apple has focused on.


For me-

1. Project Timeline organization.

2. Project/Event database improvements.


I think no matter what they do, some people will be happy, and others will be disappointed because they didn't do exactly what they wanted them to. I'd be happy with #1 above, and bug fixes. Oh, my other prediction is that if it's a paid update, lots of people will complain. :-)
Can't sleep? Try this: fcpxpert.net ;-)
Last Edit: 28 Sep 2013 15:55 by plysat.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 16:25 #31708

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So to keep things lively- here's a nice 2-part question for everyone to answer.

1. What is YOUR #1 feature request.

Better Integration with news gathering services like Avid Inews so that editors can interact directly with the system at broadcast stations where used

2. What is the #1 thing you think Apple has focused on.

Speed and roundtrip with other programs

For me-

1. Project Timeline organization.

2. Project/Event database improvements.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 28 Sep 2013 16:58 #31710

plysat wrote:
I think no matter what they do, some people will be happy, and others will be disappointed because they didn't do exactly what they wanted them to. I'd be happy with #1 above, and bug fixes. Oh, my other prediction is that if it's a paid update, lots of people will complain. :-)

Of these things I have little doubt.
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