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TOPIC: Dynamic Trimming ?

Dynamic Trimming ? 23 Aug 2014 09:01 #51677

  • toxotis70
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Everyone that works with Avid, knows what Dynamic trimming is... you can edit a Cut while you are trimming and hearing Audio too.
Its very easy to edit like this, and i am looking something like this in FCPX .

Is there any way to do that ?

A small video i found in Youtube to see what Dynamic trimming is...


Thank you.
Last Edit: 23 Aug 2014 09:02 by toxotis70.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 23 Aug 2014 17:13 #51681

  • ddixon
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Have you heard the full Final Cut Grill podcast that prompted this? I have not, yet, but assume they talk about this in detail. While FCPX will not do this, I don't find the FCPX approach nearly as fiddly as Austin seems to. You can either place a marker, then snap the cut to it using the Trim tool, or just pause the playback and then use Trim. And, of course, you don't really have to change tools, just press T, drag, and release T.

And as we see in the video, it seems to me that if you don't pick exactly the right frame in Avid on the first try, the advantage is lost anyway. Moving it around requires similar tweaking regardless.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 23 Aug 2014 22:15 #51688

  • ronny courtens
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Actually FCP X does dynamic trimming, and I find it easier than in Avid.



I did this at home on a basic MacMini, on a decent editing machine it is even much faster :)

-Ronny
Last Edit: 24 Aug 2014 08:08 by ronny courtens.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 09:55 #51700

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ronny courtens wrote:
Actually FCP X does dynamic trimming, and I find it easier than in Avid....
I did this at home on a basic MacMini, on a decent editing machine it is even much faster :)

looks like 'Multicam edit without multiple cams' ... :silly:
Excellent inspiration for future workflows .. , thanks Ronny!

But no bowling down of brave Minis (=my only editing machine) :woohoo: ;) :lol:
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 11:56 #51704

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Hey Karsten,

Oh no, I'm not dismissing the Mini at all. I actually know some people who cut great stuff with X on a Mini. But this one is a 2011 i5 with 4 GGB RAM, so you hardly can call it fit for serious editing. Yet it works pretty well I must say.

Have a great Sunday.

- Ronny
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 12:35 #51708

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ronny courtens wrote:
... Yet it works pretty well I must say....

I was just kid din' you! ;)

as a more serious meant side note:
For us hobbyists, it is a mean machine ... on 'paper' even the nMP isn't 'state of the art', but it runs circles when using FCPX - impressive, how software engineers can optimize.

Benchmark tests test .. benchmarks. When using FCPX as intended, it is plain awesome. Even with a Mini... I know, you know that. :cheer:

A nice weekend too ... actually teaching me new tricks with Motion5 ... maybe I'll publish my version of an 'Aperture Dissolve' today ... Replicators are fun :woohoo:


Bildschirmfoto2014-08-24um14.26.11.jpg
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 13:44 #51711

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i have seen all those videos.... but its not the same.
For rough cut FCPX dynamic trimming is Ok , but then , you can't do it for extend one clip's tail... you don't see it in real time, you just guess the rest of the clip, while is playing.

Its the only thing (for me) FCPX doesn't have , neither Premiere .
Maybe in a next update....
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 13:49 #51712

  • Tom Wolsky
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You mean see what clip media is beyond an edit point? You do that in the precision editor and do an extend edit to ripple or roll.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 15:05 #51715

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i know that... but its not real time playback, while you are in trimming mode.
Its ok... not big deal.

Another one i am missing , is that there is no consolidate mode for used portion of clips, only whole clips.
Its a pain in the a@#$ to have long clips consolidated if you are using small portions of those....
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 15:36 #51716

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I agree it's not the same.

- Realtime trimming is much faster in FCP X. You don't have to go in Trim mode, just play your timeline and use the keyboard shortcuts to trim tails or heads or Trim to Playhead while you play. And of course there is realtime playback while you trim.

- Extending a clip takes an extra step, just as in Avid: select the clip boundary, SHIFT+? (Play Around), SHIFT+X (Extend to Playhead), all in real time while you play the timeline. As Tom says: if you want to see the handles just double-click when you select the clip boundary and trim in the precision editor, all in realtime playback.

Not having trimmed media with handles when consolidating is something I miss as well, just like there are many things I miss in in MC that I can do in FCP X. But that's a different topic.

- Ronny
Last Edit: 24 Aug 2014 15:37 by ronny courtens.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 16:11 #51718

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"but its not real time playback, while you are in trimming mode."

Don't know what you mean by that? Playback isn't in realtime in the precision editor? You can see media for both the in, the out, or the edit in realtime. You can realtime ripple either shot or roll the edit.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 24 Aug 2014 21:58 #51732

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As I said when I was on the FCPXGrill Trimming is the one thing I'd really like to see improved in FCP X.
The Precision Editor is awful compared with AVID which is still the king of trim. If you're cutting drama there is nothing better than seeing a "big close up" of your edit point to find that exact frame. Plus the fact that it's VERY easy to trim only video which is the norm for drama.

Cut for audio then trim for video.
Sean Lander - Editing since 1982 - AVID 1991 - FCP 1999 - FCPX 2011
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Dynamic Trimming ? 25 Aug 2014 09:22 #51748

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I totally agree.

A few weeks ago I had an interview in a large production facility with some experienced television editors who went from Avid/FCP to FCP X. Their work mainly consists in editing entertainment shows (Who Wants To Be a Millionaire, Master Chef a.s.o.) and narrative.

I asked them what their experiences were and what things they would like to see improved in future updates. I was pleasantly surprised how much they liked working with FCP X and how every one of them felt they were getting the work done in an easier and faster way (no plugging here, that's exactly what they said). Some of the most requested features they submitted had to do with trimming and with concentrating on the edit point:

- Assymetric and group-trimming (not possible in FCP X yet)
- When zooming in on a clip it always should be centered in the timeline
- When Match Framing a clip in the Event browser in List view always have the matching frame appear in the center of the browser window
- A Scrolling Timeline option (for a few of them, others never use this in Avid either)
- Trim video only (this is possible in FCP X but you have to expand the clip first, which is an extra step)

These requests confirm what Sean has mentioned.

- Ronny
Last Edit: 25 Aug 2014 09:26 by ronny courtens.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 25 Aug 2014 09:30 #51749

  • toxotis70
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exactly my thoughts...!
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Dynamic Trimming ? 25 Aug 2014 13:36 #51754

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ronny courtens wrote:
- Trim video only (this is possible in FCP X but you have to expand the clip first, which is an extra step)

- Ronny

I asked for a solution for this since 10.0.0. I even think the solution is Simple: when you click Expand now in the timeline, it expands Every clip but if you throw in Another clip, you have to do it again for that clip. It takes a lot of extra clicks. It would be Simple if you click Expand All, that the timeline stays in An expanded view, even if you throw in new clips. Seems Like this would save everyone a lot of clicks and it doesn't seem to me to be a big coding challenge, all the interface stays the same.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 25 Aug 2014 17:51 #51767

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I actually started making a tutorial about a two years ago "Demystifying Dynamic Trimming in FCPX", specially about using the precision editor for dynamic trimming— the thing is it SHOULD work. All the functions are there, BUT it is just not implemented for a smooth workflow and there are a few giant inconsistencies that make it clunky. On top of that we and we need a persistent 2 up view (if not more) in the precision editor. So the tutorial was a no go and I moved on to spread the news about sub clipping. ;)

Coincidently I just sent some detailed feedback to Apple about the bugs, inconsistencies and shortcomings to over the weekend, so this is good timing. I encourage everyone to do the same. Apple really needs to know that we want and need the precision editor to become a great trim tool.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 25 Aug 2014 20:29 #51774

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I watched that original Avid demo again. That is really smooth and slick. But if the precision editor worked for secondary storylines and a few changes were made to keyboard commands and a persistent 2 up view, I think FCPX would work just as great.

I wonder if Avid has a patent or something on is preventing others for implementing it? Seems like an easy thing to do.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 25 Aug 2014 21:27 #51779

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Not sure if AVID have a patent on it, but it would be worth it to pay up.
Most of the AVID trim functions were there in FCP Classic just not implemented as nicely.

I'm cutting a huge reality show on AVID at the moment and Trimming is the only thing that saves this clunky dinosaur of an NLE from getting thrown out the window! I'd still rather cut on FCP X.

Wish Apple would Just buy AVID and take their project sharing and trimming. Throw the rest away.
Sean Lander - Editing since 1982 - AVID 1991 - FCP 1999 - FCPX 2011
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Dynamic Trimming ? 25 Aug 2014 22:42 #51784

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i work both Avid and FCPX... and FCPX is way faster on almost everything.
I can't see any technical reason for Apple not to implement dynamic trimming, except for patent reasons.
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Dynamic Trimming ? 27 Aug 2014 01:49 #51841

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Tom Wolsky wrote:
"but its not real time playback, while you are in trimming mode."

Don't know what you mean by that? Playback isn't in realtime in the precision editor? You can see media for both the in, the out, or the edit in realtime. You can realtime ripple either shot or roll the edit.

Hi guys,
I think what he's trying to say is that the dynamic trim mode in Avid lets you continue to see the outgoing clip play in real-time in the source window (what FCPX calls the viewer). It's pretty quick in that demo and I don't think adequately stressed, because that's the key difference. Take a close look at 1:46 in the video, and notice how the outgoing shot CONTINUES to play in the source window even after where the cut would have happened. All he did was press "L" to play, and press "space" to stop where he felt the new cut should occur, and it moves the cut point to there. In order to be able to adequately judge this, you MUST be able to continue to see the outgoing clip. To put it another way, you can "play" that edit point forward or backward, and "stop" it when it feels right.

I agree it's a simple thing to add if they wanted to. It's also not the end-all and be-all of ways to judge and adjust a cut, but it would be nice to have.
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