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TOPIC: Help with bitrates? How to choose, some other questions? Experienced people please

Help with bitrates? How to choose, some other questions? Experienced people please 09 Sep 2017 20:16 #90420

Hello,
I have a 5D Mark IV, it has C Log on it and is an awesome video camera even if some people don't like it. However, it does have a huge file size. I actually like the .mjpeg codec as it seems to look so much more detailed than others I've tried and screen grabs look good from it.
However, when it's not an important video, I'd like to still save the original clips, not just the edited project but I don't want 30 minutes of footage to take up 64GB on my hard drive. I looked at Apple Compressor, I see that I can pick H.264 and change the bitrate by making a custom preset. However, I have to change it with Kbps instead of Mbps. I have a convertor so I know what's what there.
I don't know at what point do I lose any quality that I will notice? Also is it wise to edit h.264 clips? When it ask me a bitrate on the compressors in Kbps it means per second correct? Also what is, 'Frame Sync?' I'm used to having Adobe Premiere and Adobe Media Encoder and the way that was laid out made a whole lot more sense. I could pick a bitrate and it gave me an estimate of about how large the file would be compared to the original.
With Apple Compressor it seems it's just a blind guess. BUT, I assume that 150Mbps is good enough to not lose any quality. So, would I set it to 19,000kbps? Or do I have all of that wrong?
Also, I don't want to lose my 4:2:2 color information. Although it's only 8 bit, the 4:2:2 makes a difference. Also, because I shoot in Canon Log, I like to pull out as much information as I can from the file which works well with .Mjpeg, will it work as well with a downsized file?

Last question here thats kinda a different topic but kinda not: The .Mjpeg plays and edits fine on my Mac until I get a big project with color grades from Color Finale pro on each one and Neat Video denoiser in some shots. Then it lags really heavily. Although Proress 422 will cause the file to be EVEN bigger, will it give me a smoother editing experience once I get all those things thrown onto multiple clips?

For the ones that I don't mind throwing away original clips but keeping a copy of the final edit, I also don't know what to do there. Obviously on an important video shoot I'd keep a master edit but if it's something around the house I don't want to keep a huge master edit but I want to keep the whole edit in good quality. I have no idea how much I can compress and it be in the safe zone?

A few minutes ago I wanted to try C-LOG out since Canon just returned my camera with the upgrade last night. I did a series of short clips which equaled around 12.5 GB, I exported to 4k Apple Devices .m4v, it ended up being 2GB which isn't too bad and I can't tell any quality difference.
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Help with bitrates? How to choose, some other questions? Experienced people please 10 Sep 2017 06:43 #90423

  • Axel
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bluecosmo5050 wrote:
However, when it's not an important video, I'd like to still save the original clips, not just the edited project but I don't want 30 minutes of footage to take up 64GB on my hard drive.


For long-term storage, you can use an external drive, consolidate and move the library to it. Even if I shot 200 GB video on a daily basis, I would still be able to afford that . Unless I don't buy my drives at a fancy store in a pouch made of panda crotch leather or so.

The question of lower bitrates vs. quality can only be answered by: recompression results in quality loss. Period. And visible quality loss. As for acquisition (camera) or distribution (Youtube) we have little choices. But just look at some random YT clips and see all the artifacts caused by compression. A major problem, as I see it.

Your request is like asking a musician, why he doesn't store the work of his entire career on a $10 USB drive as mp3, because you find the quality okay. He won't. He has mixed everything in a studio, and he heard all the niceties and the superior dynamics there.

Fact is, nothing can top the quality of the originals. If you want to keep something, keep those. Do without a visit to the zoo or an extra pizza once a month and buy storage. Anyone here who disagrees?

bluecosmo5050 wrote:
The .Mjpeg plays and edits fine on my Mac until I get a big project with color grades from Color Finale pro on each one and Neat Video denoiser in some shots. Then it lags really heavily. Although Proress 422 will cause the file to be EVEN bigger, will it give me a smoother editing experience once I get all those things thrown onto multiple clips?


Different story. Neat is a notorious real time killer everywhere. I bet you'd lose real time even on the flagship model of the upcoming iMacPro. As you have noticed, ProRes betters the performance (not: provides real time in each and any circumstance), while not resulting in visible quality loss. That's why 99% of all fcp.co members use it. H.264, particularly with higher compression and longer GOPs, will cost performance and quality. Have a look in one of the Adobe forums. With UHD AVC people start to edit proxies, although this means they have to wait for the transcoding. Proxy mode is toggled, and if you start editing in the original codec, the computer is so busy that the background tasks never get finished. But they can't start in proxy either. Be lucky you chose FCP.
Last Edit: 10 Sep 2017 07:02 by Axel.
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Help with bitrates? How to choose, some other questions? Experienced people please 10 Sep 2017 09:46 #90425

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bluecosmo5050 wrote:
...The .Mjpeg plays and edits fine on my Mac until I get a big project with color grades from Color Finale pro on each one and Neat Video denoiser in some shots. Then it lags really heavily. Although Proress 422 will cause the file to be EVEN bigger, will it give me a smoother editing experience once I get all those things thrown onto multiple clips?...

You should probably transcode to proxy, not optimized media, then edit in proxy mode, then switch back to optimized/original for the final export. Proxy produces much smoother editing and is a lot smaller than optimized media. On 4k original material even proxy is 1080p, so you have plenty of detail on which to make editing decisions. If you crop/zoom into the frame in proxy mode, the full 4k resolution will be used on the final export -- provided you switch the viewer back to optimized/original before exporting.
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Help with bitrates? How to choose, some other questions? Experienced people please 11 Sep 2017 14:55 #90453

I don't think that's what I'm asking exactly. There has to be a way to get .MJPEG at 510Mbps down to 150Mbps without seeing qquality loss. I'd think. The reason the bitrate is so high is not that it's that much higher quality it's so the processor doesn't have to work that hard.
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Help with bitrates? How to choose, some other questions? Experienced people please 11 Sep 2017 14:59 #90454

Well, the problem with proxy (which I do when doing Multicam) is the color grading part of the process. I have no issues at all editing it. It's only when I start adding color finale pro to every single clip, and if I was to go down to proxy I wouldn't be able to color grade it correctly. I can edit it no problem.
I do notice the NEAT denoise does add a lot to it. I've looked at Davinci Resolve Studio Denoise and I wonder how it compares.
I have Davince Resolve free version which doesn't have that part of the software but I keep thinking about making the switch but it doesn't seem like the editing functions are as up to task.
I came from Premiere Pro CC, the only thing I didn't like about Final Cut Pro X was the color grading style but Color Finale Pro solved that.
Davince Resolve allows for a lot of great color grading options but then I lose the editing capabilities. I know that I can make round trip with .xml though.
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Help with bitrates? How to choose, some other questions? Experienced people please 11 Sep 2017 23:14 #90458

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"I came from Premiere Pro CC, the only thing I didn't like about Final Cut Pro X was the color grading style but Color Finale Pro solved that."

Try Chromatic.
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