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TOPIC: Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro)

Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 07 Aug 2018 10:32 #96743

Hello all,
I've a MacBook Pro (not Retina display) for edit videos. I do not have an external monitor for color control. Should I switch the color profile in system preferences when I edit or leave it in "Color LCD profile"? what profile may I use?

thanks
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 07 Aug 2018 11:00 #96745

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If color is important -- IOW you will not only be editing but doing final color correction on the MBP -- I'd suggest calibrating it with a tool like X-Rite i1Display Pro: a.co/6caWRL1
Or ColorMunki Display: a.co/fDkfuz5

These calibration tools are not locked to a single computer -- you can calibrate all the computers you have, both desktop and laptop. It's probably a good idea to re-calibrate every few months because of drift issues.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 07 Aug 2018 14:50 #96747

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You could also calibrate using Calibrate in Display preference.

Hold down Option key when clicking on Calibrate. At least this gets you in range. After reading your question, I had to go to my wofe’s MBP to see if this was still possible and noticed the last time I calibrated that was in 2012!
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 07 Aug 2018 17:02 #96748

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Can I use the above tools to calibrate my iMac and make it better for color correction?
Since it is not a dedicated monitor I am curious to know how much better calibrating will be after usinf these tools.
Anyone tried this on regular monitors VS dedicated monitors?

If you use the built-in calibration tools I believe they are not intended for Film or video?
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 07 Aug 2018 19:45 #96749

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If you are referring to my post, then yes, the Display Calibration is part of the OS. I've given up on any serious stand alone calibration stuff a long while ago. The color on a well calibrated (OS Display Calibration) LED monitor seem to match fairly close to my second monitor, before my GPU in my MacPro started flaking out.

And honestly there are so many variables on how people view things, you'd have to have 10 million different calibrations!
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 07 Aug 2018 22:33 #96750

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Jonathan Levin wrote:
...honestly there are so many variables on how people view things, you'd have to have 10 million different calibrations!

The problem is without calibration to a standardized yardstick via a colorimeter, you never know if all the hours you spend on color correction are valid. You can't control the thousands of different viewing methods and environments of your material. There is no way to give all viewers the same experience. Some may be using a 15-yr-old CRT monitor; others may be viewing it on a smart phone. But that's not the goal of color calibration of the editing monitor.

This is similar to audio mastering. Some people may listen to the music on a cheap car radio with windows open. Others may be using Wilson Audio speakers that cost $700k in an acoustically-engineered room. That variation doesn't mean the mastering engineer does a slipshod job.

The risk is your monitor might be skewed or aged from a color standpoint. If you spent many hours building a house with a tape measure that was three inches short, it would be expensive to correct. Similarly if you spend many hours color correcting video and your monitor is skewed red, blue, etc. it's costly to correct.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 07 Aug 2018 22:41 #96751

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I guess what I am asking is:
1. Will the tools refered to above help me have a better overall calibration of my iMac monitor.
2. How to I get the most out of what I see on my monitor so it can stand up to most situations.

Knowing that I can't afford a dedicated color corection monitor!
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 08 Aug 2018 03:12 #96752

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ColorSync works between Mac apps and Apple (and I think a couple of third party) monitors. It's as good as you need to get.

I edit and color grade for broadcast. I use the color meters, and I have learned the difference between my Thunderbolt display and a general TV monitor over time. I don't think a broadcast monitor is necessary for most cases, but when I did have one, it was great.

And I was never a fan of color calibration tools for computer monitors. I've never seen them first hand do much good.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 08 Aug 2018 05:18 #96753

Jonathan Levin wrote:
…And honestly there are so many variables on how people view things, you'd have to have 10 million different calibrations!

nope, there's just one - the correct one, one per display.
Ever been in a professional grading suite? 'calibrated' lamps (!), room painted with some 'calibrated' 85%-grey non-reflective color, and for sure displays in the +30k$ category.... and don't wear your Hawaii shirt....

the OSbuilt-in calibration is for a quick check, wether your display isn't completely off tracks. But for a calibrated to standards display, I guess, 3rd party hardware is a must (alone: which guy's eyes are 100% color proof? Most males have limited red/blue differentiation, a color-meter not).
ok, for content distributed on the web, watched on phones (in bright daylight …) no need for overkill …

Story from the past: once saw a client holding a sample of fabric aside a display - "doesn't match"… :silly:
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 08 Aug 2018 08:56 #96755

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Karsten Schlüter wrote:
(alone: which guy's eyes are 100% color proof? Most males have limited red/blue differentiation, a color-meter not).

Make this test. Tip: take your time, do it only when you are well-rested. No strong colors in your field of vision, no lights with another color temperature than that of your display - these conditions make a *huge* difference in judging colors accurately. My brother always hits "0" - absolute color vision. I, well, do not.

Karsten Schlüter wrote:
Story from the past: once saw a client holding a sample of fabric aside a display - "doesn't match"…


Not the dumbest way to immediately notice wrong colors. Only that the other factor here is the camera (color profile, WB etc.). Use a box with 100 crayons, record it next to your display, and afterwards compare.
Last Edit: 08 Aug 2018 09:05 by Axel.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 08 Aug 2018 16:54 #96756

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Thanks for all the feedback.
There is also one other variable...The projector setup.
I have noticed that my films come out quite good in most circomstances but
some setups make a big difference. That is a part I can test before hand but not always.
A bit stressed when you can't try it out first.
I really don't want to discover something on the night of the screening!
Luckely most professionals will advise you if there is an isssue.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 08 Aug 2018 19:11 #96758

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Albo wrote:
...There is also one other variable...The projector setup.
I have noticed that my films come out quite good in most circomstances but
some setups make a big difference. That is a part I can test before hand but not always.
A bit stressed when you can't try it out first.
I really don't want to discover something on the night of the screening!...

This is frequently a major problem. A lot of projection and audio equipment is sub-standard and some of it is just totally messed up. George Lucas was so frustrated by this, he founded THX certification for theaters.

The above-discussed variation in monitors is trivial relative to the variation in lower-end, non-certified projection equipment and screens. It definitely raises the question why work hard correcting color or audio if the projection equipment is really bad.

Your best approach is get access to the venue and test both audio and video equipment ahead of time. Unfortunately if it's a rented multi-use facility (ballroom, conference room, etc) it can get messed up between your test and the screening. The multi-use projectors in those places are typically very old, weak and out of adjustment. We recently tested a venue just two hours before a screening, adjusted the projector ourselves, audio was initially good but then the facility staff messed up the audio so badly it was difficult to hear.

If it's a dedicated theater (even a small one) your chances are better. If you test it there's a better chance it will still work. If the equipment needs adjusting, maybe there's someone to discuss that with. If there are multiple films being shown you could discuss it with the other filmmakers and make a joint request.

The only real solution is get your own projection and audio equipment and haul it to the venue in a van. Fortunately high quality projectors and portable folding-frame screens are not extremely expensive, at least relative to professional cameras and lenses.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 09 Aug 2018 01:14 #96759

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Indeed looking into some projectors. That is, for me, the number one issue.
Online is not a problem.

Thanks.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 10 Aug 2018 14:39 #96773

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Joema wrote: "The only real solution is get your own projection and audio equipment and haul it to the venue in a van. Fortunately high quality projectors and portable folding-frame screens are not extremely expensive..."

So, does anyone have a recommendation for a portable HD projector and screen? (No heavy duty van needed.) I am looking for something versatile – that can be used in everything from a living room to a church gathering of perhaps 200 people that has quite a bit of ambient daylight through windows. (Yeah, maybe a big ask. But perhaps one of you has a big solution. :) )
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 10 Aug 2018 15:43 #96776

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For 200 people, high ambient light and extreme portability, that's difficult.

There are specialized screens which reject ambient light, but they are expensive, fixed-frame or roll-down, and not foldable:
www.screeninnovations.com/materials/black-diamond/

Da-Lite has a new "fast fold" portable NXT screen which looks pretty good:

Rear projection may work better if ambient light behind the screen can be controlled. A short-throw rear projection setup is a possibility. www.projectorpeople.com/resources/short-throw.asp

However rear projection typically has poorer off-axis performance than front projection. If most of your audience is within (say) a 60 degree cone, rear projection works better. There are many screen surfaces, each with differing characteristics: www.audiogeneral.com/DaLite/gain_charts.html#rear

For a low-cost very compact screen, the Epson ES3000 is about 80" diagonal and fits in a compact car: epson.com/Accessories/Projector-Accessor...-Screen/p/V12H002S3Y

80" is generally too small for 200 people but I frequently see auditoriums with that seating capacity using screens that size.

A 3000-lumen projector on an 80 inch screen with a screen gain of 1.0 in theory produces 158 foot lamberts, which is equal to 541 nits. That is brighter than most LCD monitors. However ambient light will still wash out and reduce the contrast on a white projector screen.

There are lower-cost, larger inflatable screens but they are mostly designed for outdoor use due to the noise from the constantly-running inflation pump. However I think some people use them inside.

For more info see these sites:

www.projectorcentral.com
www.projectorscreen.com
Last Edit: 10 Aug 2018 15:46 by joema.
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 10 Aug 2018 16:10 #96777

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Joema: I just have to say, that you are an incredibly helpful resource person. You always offer thorough content. As a self taught guy who only started making video at retirement age, I am pretty amazed at how much you know about so many components of the complex tech and workflows of this business. Thank you so much!
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Monitor calibrate (MacBook Pro) 11 Aug 2018 04:39 #96780

RevJimBob wrote:
J… you are an incredibly helpful resource person.…

no doubt - Joe shares in any of his post very profound, in-depth insights, learning a lot reading his advices.

… but … ;) he has the 'pro' perspective. Reading video is your retirement hobby, Jim, maybe his advice is a bit … over the top. In my business days, I was allowed to experience those "money doesn't matter!" solutions too, actually an old grumpy guy, volunteering at a schools 'filmklub' project, I have to live with shoestring-budgets …

Any actual DLP-based projector, 1k$ tag range + an old slideshow screen gives here superb (amateur standards!) results. Our school uses Epson devices, no clue what model (fix montaged on the ceiling) … we do have the privilege of electric window shades …

ok, for 200 people it would get a bit … cuddly …

A designated projector screen (not the beige painted wall) and as less as possible ambient light = nice 'n bright.

And, one from the archives 'Grandpas stories from the war':
In one classroom, the Red channel wasn't connected … nobody had noticed, for weeks! … the kids thought of a kind of Instagram filter, the teachers reaction "hm, looks a bit different than at home" - so much about worrying pic-quality.- :woohoo:
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