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TOPIC: What Would you like to see in Motion 6??

What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 03:30 #32718

  • muddygun
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Since there is a FCP X Pre-release discussion that spans 16 pages, I figure we could all show some Motion love!

Here are some things I would like to see:

1. Bring Motion Projects directly into FCP X
2. Better integration with a 3D program such as maya, cinema 4d, blender, or Nuke
3. More Behaviors!
4. A less buggy keyframe editor
5. Not to steal from After Effects, but a Rotoscoping tool!!!!!!
6. Let me get thinner lines than 1.0
7. Warp text on paths instead of just rotating the text.
8. an update to analyze motion, features like analysis beyond the video frame (mocha has this)
9. More glows, more control in the glow filters
10. A character animation tool. something similar to the puppet tool in after effects, but maybe more intuitive and maybe have asignments to layers and stuff.

There are more, but i figure i would keep it simple at first.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 05:20 #32720

  • Gabriel Spaulding
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That's quite a few feature requests!

I haven't found the Keyframe Editor to be buggy in the least. But the program does have its fair share of bugs, and it freezes and crashes way too often, so number one on my list would be general stability improvements.

Next is more of a Final Cut Pro X request, but I would like to see the 'Send to Motion' command reinstated, or a new version of this to be implemented. Publishing and Rigging is amazing, and I hope Apple develops this further, but the ability to send a single FCPX clip (or group of clips) to Motion and back would be a much more significant improvement to my workflow.

Any of the feature requests on your list would be fantastic, but I would hate to see the program get bloated and the interface cluttered the way After Effects is.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 07:10 #32723

• a CLOCK behavior:
you apply that clock to a Project, an on every xx frame/sec, it 'triggers' some action

• MATH functions:
maybe too much 'node thinking' again, but: would be nice to calculate … pixels, distances, times, 'values'

• REAL Timecode
not the actual time of a Project, but the real timestamp of the source material
or
allowing the actual Timecode negative off-sets: when I like to add a 'clock insert' in the 8th minute of my project (e.g. to show how long or fast some action took), I would need an off-set of minus eight = not optional yet.-

• decimal clock counters…
(or how ever to describe it: ) for my sport-reports, the 65th minute of a game is not 01:05:00, but 00:65:00
Last Edit: 19 Oct 2013 07:10 by Karsten Schlüter.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 07:48 #32724

  • thefcpxeditor
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A true 3D motion tracker would be awesome. It would be a big step up for its compositing abilities.

I know there is a plugin coming soon from MotionVFX that will let you import and manipulate 3D models :)

I just wish there were more plugin developers creating more amazing tools for Motion then there are right now. That's were AE wins. They have all these users/companies that have vastly expanded it's feature set via plugins.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 13:39 #32727

  • alex4D
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I'm sure Apple have at least a five year plan for Motion, so for Motion 5.1, 5.2 (2015), 5.3 (2016)...

- Filters to have access to the native frame rate, dimensions, metadata (including time-based metadata such as Final Cut Pro X keywords and subtitles) and timecode tracks of footage they are applied to.

- 'Non-timecode' mode - as plugins can be placed in Final Cut timelines of any frame rate, I'd like to be able to set in points, out points of layers, keyframes and parameter values in seconds and decimal fractions of a second.

- Multiple Inspectors so I can work with more than one layer at a time, or see the property, filter and behaviour settings of a layer at the same time

- Parameter combination presets ("Pink, from Left, Fast" saved in a pop-up menu)

- Build in and build out durations that can be changed in Final Cut Pro X (using timeline and inspector controls)

- Bezier warp of layers in 3D

- 3D extrusion settings for any layer (including self reflection and emitted light effects)

- Multiple editable parameter animation curves in Final Cut Pro X (with bezier handles)

- 'Divide by source' 'Raise to the power of source' Link Parameter Apply Modes

- Named editable keyframe curves that can be applied wherever 'Ease in' 'Accelerate' 'Logarithmic' 'Exponential' parameter settings are used (such as a curve named 'Ease out - overshoot - damped oscillate to final value')

- For debugging: Publish parameter values as hidden values that can be shown in optional overlays in Final Cut Pro X

- Publishable/Riggable 'Active Camera' so Final Cut Pro X users can choose which camera to view through

- Publishable/Riggable 'Motion Blur' 'Quality' settings

- Riggable font control

- Text generator that combines text from different places (=Word X of the text from layer 'foo' && characters 7 to 25 of the text from layer 'bar') including font and size text formatting

- Riggable behaviour and filter switches - so rigs can turn filters and behaviours on and off

- Rigging access to Pixel Aspect Ratios

- Editable Aspect Ratio rigs

- '3D position' and '3D angle' on-screen control that can be published and behaviour linked

- Keyframable position on-screen controls (without having to use tracking)

- Clickable overlapping on-screen controls

- New on-screen controls (such as some that appear in Motion) - including 'point with bezier controls'

- Ways of converting Title motion templates to Generator motion templates or Transition or Effect motion templates or vice versa i.e. "Insert 'Title Background' placeholder" or "Convert Effect Source placeholder to Drop Zone"

- Additional Final Cut Pro X placeholders for "Layer Below current" and "Layer Above Current" - implicit drop zones that don't have to be chosen directly and give access to alternate layers as clips and generators are moved along the Final Cut Pro X timeline (including layers that are disabled using V)

- For transitions applied to connected storyline clips, a 'Transition Background' Final Cut Pro X placeholder to go with newly named 'Incoming Clip', 'Outgoing Clip' placeholders

- The ability to create password-protected plugins

- Link parameter behaviour auto-naming preferences such as if I link the X position of a layer named 'Foo' to the X anchor point of a layer named 'Bar', name the behaviour "Link Foo.Pos.X <- Bar.Anc.X"

- Access to Logic and Apple audio plugins plus the audio of clips in Final Cut Pro X placeholders

- Rigging/Publishing audio parameters

- Audio only plugin creation for Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X (including the ability to open built-in Final Cut Pro X audio effect bundles)

- Quartz Composition creation and editing

- Plugin creation for iMovie on OS X and iOS

- Plugin creation for Apple Aperture, Apple Motion itself, iPhoto, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe After Effects, Adobe Premiere, Avid (Mac OS X versions only) - for those who have downloaded a free Motion plugin playback system from Apple (like the UI-less version of Motion that in built into Final Cut)


Hope all these features can be sorted by Tuesday!
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 15:41 #32730

Yikes! That's a great list- though much of it I'd never use. Though I know I'm criminally underusing publishing to FCPX as it is...

For me it's pretty simple-

1. Broadcast output, PLEASE!!!
2. 3D Motion tracking.
3. Better integration with FCPX.
4. Some improvement to the particle systems- I'm thinking Trapcode Particular here, so I'm probably dreaming...
5. I'd say Extrusion, but I think my needs there (along with 3D object import) will be met handily by motionVFX's m3D/mObject plugin coming in November.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 17:53 #32733

  • muddygun
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Those all sound like great improvements:

As for the keyframing problem I am having, when I am moving a bunch of keyframes around it tends to cause problems with the curves a lot. Ive had to do some weird copying and pasting techniques to get it to work. And you can forgot moving them in the regular timeline because it messes with the curves too.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 19:37 #32734

  • FCPGuy
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Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
Yikes! That's a great list- though much of it I'd never use. Though I know I'm criminally underusing publishing to FCPX as it is...

For me it's pretty simple-

1. Broadcast output, PLEASE!!!
2. 3D Motion tracking.
3. Better integration with FCPX.
4. Some improvement to the particle systems- I'm thinking Trapcode Particular here, so I'm probably dreaming...
5. I'd say Extrusion, but I think my needs there (along with 3D object import) will be met handily by motionVFX's m3D/mObject plugin coming in November.

I agree, but I also like to see all the paint tools from Shake in Motion. Well a extrusion would be nice since the plugin is really slow at the moment...
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 19 Oct 2013 19:56 #32735

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All of the Trapcode stuff would be great but that would be up to Red Giant to spend a crazy amount of time rewriting all of the plugins for Motion. I would love to see it, but that is a tall order.

Better FCP X integration I think deserves the top spot though on the list.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 15:27 #32746

I wasn't thinking of RedGiant specifically- I don't see any motivation on their part to develop for Motion until it has a larger base of users (and perhaps a better plug-in architecture?).

I'd like to see Apple improve it's built in particle effects- but that's relatively lower on my list than my other requests.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 15:47 #32747

Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
… I'd like to see Apple improve it's built in particle effects- but that's relatively lower on my list than my other requests.

My 'philosophical' reflections (pun intended):
Motion, actually, is 2D, animated psd-layers, titles.
'Particles' are, imhu, the borderline to 3D… !

The question for Apple is:
Should Motion be expanded into the third dimension?
… which means planar tracking/Mocha for Motion, 3ds import support, etc etc etc.

… which means poaching deep in Adobes domain … :woohoo:
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 15:57 #32748

Motion already works in 3D space. Particles. Layers. Refections. Lighting. At least as well in most respects as AE. (reflections BETTER than AE).

Not sure where you're drawing the distinction.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 16:33 #32750

Disproportionate Pictures wrote:
… Not sure where you're drawing the distinction.

You can not draw a hard line btw. 2.5D and 3D, I know!
And, with all respect - I'm just a (well-informed) hobbyist, I've heard of depth-of-field options in Motion, focal distance settings, saw funny tutorials to create a 'box' etc. - You're right.-

But I would never call Motion a 3D.app:

• Create a sphere. (my attempts to create a simple, three-dimensional football as a 'wipe'-element in Motion taught me the expression "equirectangular projection" :silly: )
• Or, 'reflections' of a surrounding environment on some cube … 
• Aerial perspective …
• try to create an 'origami'-transition, any cheesy video.app offers
• 3D-tracking …

… afaik, all optional in AE. (you will correct me…)

Motion will never be a substitute of a full-flavored 3D tool as Maya/Modo/Cinema4D/… for sure!

… I would not be surprised, based upon sheer computation power of TheTube, we'll see some more 'three-dee-inish' in a future product. Just think of 3D-tracking for composites …
Last Edit: 20 Oct 2013 16:35 by Karsten Schlüter.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 16:39 #32751

Motion can actually do most of the things you mention.

Motion's 3D space is restricted in basically the same ways that AE is.

Reflections work in 3D space (way better than AE). You can build simple objects like boxes (but not spheres). and particles and replicators both work in global 3D space as well.

I built a working Rubix Cube in Motion for a job this year, that reflected on a floor plane below.
Last Edit: 20 Oct 2013 16:40 by Disproportionate Pictures.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 16:48 #32752

  • alex4D
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X-style Final Cut Pro-Motion round-tripping

A long-term direction for Motion 5.X would be to it to have the compositing and finishing features of Autodesk Smoke.

I don't think many editors want their NLE to become an 'everything but the kitchen sink' application. If editors wanted to become compositors, 3D animators or motion graphics designers, or 'Smoke Artists' they would have chosen those paths specifically.

That is the reason Apple didn't make every single parameter of every filter available as plugins in Final Cut. One of the skills of good plugin design is working out what not to include as a changeable parameter.

What would the X version of round-tripping be? Given that a Motion Project could be both the parent of a Final Cut Pro X timeline (the FCP project could be a single layer in the Motion project) or a clip in Final Cut Pro X timeline or event, the answer isn't simple.

Motion users should one day be able to work with a live Final Cut Pro X multi-clip storyline while it is being edited by other editors. Any compositing changes made in Motion should be made visible to the editors working on story in real time in Final Cut Pro X.

A way of dealing with timing changes would for Motion timeline markers to be dynamically linked to edits in Final Cut Pro X.

For example, imagine the initial edit sent to Motion had an edit every two seconds. That would produce a Motion timeline with a edit marker every two seconds. If the edit is then changed in Final Cut Pro X so the edits are no longer two seconds apart, the Motion timeline wouldn't change, it would just play back the behaviours and keyframes between each marker at different speeds to keep in sync with the edit.

This wouldn't apply when Motion is being used for frame and pixel-specific work such as advanced masking and tracking. In this case each clip within the project would have its own timeline in Motion. The Motion user would see edit point changes made in Final Cut Pro when the clip timeline In and Out points change. When playing the clip timeline in Motion it could even play the previous and next clips and the audio mix from the parent Final Cut Pro timeline to see how the clip works in context.

The trick with feature requests is also to also come up with a possible user interface for what you want. Apple is never going to add a feature until the UI makes sense to new and experienced users.


@Alex4D
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 22:49 #32766

I agree that's it's not as simple as a compound clip being a Motion project. That's how it was in Legacy and it never worked effectively for me- it would alway end up becoming un-rendered for some reason.

I think the first point in Motion integration it to make it easy to get footage TO Motion. It should be as easy as selecting a couple of clips in the timeline and saying- "Send to Motion". That part worked great in FCP7.

Because Motion comps can be very complex, and you don't want to endanger crashing your Project in FCPX while trying to play back- there should essentially be an intermediary Rendered file. If you have a "Motion Comp" in your Project it doesn't play back unless it rendered- and it can render in the background while you're working. You can launch into motion from that file- but the moment you change anything the Comp in FCPX shows a tag indicating that it need to be rendered again, and the old render can be seamlessly replaced by the new one when it's done.


...or Something like that.

I dunno. What does everyone think the over/under on a Motion update along with X.1 is? It makes sense, but there's absolutely nothing to go on.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 20 Oct 2013 23:40 #32767

  • alex4D
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As all effects and compositing in Final Cut are implemented using a UI-less copy of Motion built into the app, I'd be amazed if there isn't a major update to Motion along with Final Cut.

More features (which would be good news for Final Cut Pro X)

- The ability to interpret depth map movies that go with RGBA rendered 3D graphics. Instead of baking in depth of field and volumetric lighting in the 3D render, Motion filters (i.e. Final Cut Pro plugins) will be able to add depth of field and volumetric lighting with set using on-screen parameters. Depth maps could help Motion (Final Cut) to render intersections between pre-rendered 3D elements, and calculate occlusion for stereoscopic 3D.

- Variance in replicator sequence behaviour parameters (like the Variance in text sequence behaviour parameters)

- Replicators as masks - so each replicator cell automatically creates another instance of the layer it is applied to!

- 3D models as source arrangements for replicators

- 3D models as cell sources for replicators

- For audio from Final Cut Pro X-placed clips that can control Motion parameters (Link scale of mouth.Y to specific frequencies of the audio in the "Newsreader" Role)

- A special layer type for informational overlays - graphics that are drawn while editing in Final Cut but not rendered (or included in video scope calculations)

- A special layer type for Motion users to create their own on-screen controls for plugins used in other applications - defining click/drag/gesture hotspots and linking them to published parameters

- A special Audition dropzone type so plugins applied to dropzones get access to alternate audition candidates

- A special Compound clip dropzone type so plugins applied to compound clips get access to each individual layer of the compound from Final Cut

- A special Multicam dropzone type - for plugins to manipulate to multiple synchronised camera angles from Final Cut at once

- A special multicam render type which can send multiple simultaneous different angles back to Final Cut

- Parameter Link behaviours that can refer to parameter values at different times (X seconds from now or Y seconds before end)

- Parameter link access to actual pixel dimensions of the clip a plugin is applied to

- Parameter link access to the position, scale and other transform information that will be applied to a clip by later effects and Final Cut in the render order


@Alex4D
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 21 Oct 2013 03:29 #32774

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Alex, you've got some great ideas.

Here's a few items from my wish-list:

Published parameters (as they are seen in FCPX) in an independent window.
I always thought they would look nice in the floating HUD. It's a pain to have to jump back and forth to test your rigs.

Linkable bounding box dimensions
For example, it would be nice to link to the changing width of a text box that expands as a user types into it in FCPX

Improved outlines for text.
It doesn't handle curves too well. Text has curves.

Fit: Up to 100%
This would automatically resize the canvas, but only if it was below 100%. I wonder if this is a patent issue?


3D Extrude filter
One that works with shadows and lighting.


OK, a few bug fixes:

Let us "tab" between fields in the Properties window of the Inspector

Give us a pref that turns off the new thing where you type a number and it takes you to that frame.

When I'm in a text field and I press the letter "e" that never means I want to install an Emitter.
I mean, I love Emitters, but do they even necessitate a one-key keyboard shortcut?

And finally, Motion currently has Build-In and Build-Out markers that can be included in Titles, Effects and Generators. It would be great if FCP users could easily change the duration of those builds on the timeline without getting into retiming.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 21 Oct 2013 21:41 #32823

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Sometimes you create a Rig, such as a Slider, and publish it... but the adjustment a user makes in FCPX isn't seen on-screen due to the playhead location. It could easily be at a frame unrelated to the adjustment. It would be cool if you had an option (in the Motion rig) to specify a frame number or a marker. Then in FCPX, when a user adjusts the published Rig an inset window would appear in the viewer to show the adjustment taking place.
Last Edit: 21 Oct 2013 21:42 by SquidFX.
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What Would you like to see in Motion 6?? 22 Oct 2013 01:59 #32830

  • muddygun
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So many great ideas. I would have never thought of half those; shows how much we like using Motion!

As far as the 3D conversation, I wouldn't mind Motion having the ability to make 3D objects, but I would much rather be able to build 3D objects in another program and than take project and be able to link it to motion so you can play through it. Kind of like what AE and Cinema 4D has.
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