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TOPIC: 10.08 released!!

10.08 released!! 06 Apr 2013 23:13 #23935

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I was interested in the FCP X/Motion 5 training but the pace of updates are so fast I didn't see the point.

On another note I watched some of the videos on the new premier advancements and I wasn't to impressed, it just seemed like they are bringing in functionality that FCP 7 had(4 years ago).

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10.08 released!! 06 Apr 2013 23:32 #23938

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That said, I do honestly feel that the FCP X/Motion 5 training program is in the toilet. Their first line of promotion, and it is in ruins...


I couldn't agree more, but to me what's more important is what I've been saying from the FCPX beginning and I'll be saying it again. Get a rock solid foundation and work from that.

Long time back now, in FCPX (way too early), Apple started extending features based on pear pressure. We need a solid foundation, we have it getting close and if Apple want back the respect that they had before they need to make what exists work properly, then work from that.

Only freelance cowboy salesman ever tried to sell products that never worked. And for their own financial benefit, that's world history. Give the sales force something good to sell, or even better, change the sales force. Stop them from trying to blag us and give them a wage, don't charge them for the privilege.

We want to hear from you Apple, direct on forums, like the inferior Adobe do.

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Last edit: by NocoDave. Reason: grammar and anger

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 07:28 #23953

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@ Wildgiles

On another note I watched some of the videos on the new premier advancements and I wasn't to impressed, it just seemed like they are bringing in functionality that FCP 7 had(4 years ago).

OMG it was 4 years ago wasn´t it. Shit.

I could not agree, more. I have been banging on about this all over the place. It is all about, Meta Data, Meta Data & Meta Data. Am I repeating myself?

@ Ben

That said, I do honestly feel that the FCP X/Motion 5 training program is in the toilet. Their first line of promotion, and it is in ruins...


In all fairness I think it is a two edged sword. If I sell fish at the market and they go off it also has something to do with the lack of demand? Maybe not in your Pond but in mine definitely. Granted I could start thinking about pumping demand and/or shock freezing the fish etc :blink:

I am going to go out on a limb here. Maybe the Marketing/Training section has had their hands tied to date. Like you need true geniuses to Market something that is perceived as rubbish by lets face it, masses of professionals!

Maybe, just maybe the drip, drip, drip has amassed so much momentum now that the tide is changing. The germans say. "die hoffnung stirbt als letztes" which means that the last thing to die is the hope…

@ cseeman

One might guess that's why Apple got the LA Times coverage about stepping up their PR. I suspect they now feel they have a competitive tool set.

I so hope that you are right and that Apple Training & FCP X in general will get a kick back!!!

@ NocoDave

Get a rock solid foundation and work from that

I believe it is already there, Meta Data, the founding stone of FCP X is a rabbit hole that goes on for ever. :ohmy:

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Last edit: by paurray.

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 07:56 #23954

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Ben, why do you think the FCP/Motion training program is in the toilet? If I'm not mistaken, FCP X has the highest install base of FCP yet. There are a lot of freelancers/aspiring filmmakers out there who don't want "official" training (assuming you mean the Apple Certification program). There are plenty of free YouTube "tutorials", agreeably most often of doubtful quality, that are sufficient for them.

@paurray: not to play the wisecrack here, but "Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt" ;)

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 08:15 #23955

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My spoken German is way better as my written German. :silly:

ps in my pond I see a lot of young artists adopting

Groups of 3/4 people paying 50€ish per head for 3/4 hours

Where I am at no one is earning enough money with FCP X to justify putting 1000€ plus on the table for the official course.

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Last edit: by paurray.

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 08:29 #23956

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Time for Apple to eat their own dog food and release a kick ass iBook on FCP X and Motion. Then employ the likes of us to go ou to the world and evangelize the thing. :P
Sean Lander - Editing since 1982 - AVID 1991 - FCP 1999 - FCPX 2011

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 08:40 #23957

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@ Seanus

You are reading my mind...

However in keeping with the ever so slightly wicked twist to this thread I would propose Cat food as it is easier to get fish in there… :P

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Last edit: by paurray.

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 10:41 #23961

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I speak only of Apple Authorized Training, which in the classroom is the best around. But they've made the whole program self-serve, no support, no PR like before, etc. It is a neglected dept at Apple, IMHO. But the classroom training itself is in fact the best quality training around. But not on par with what it used to be.

Only macProVideo & Ripple Training have programs I'm willing to endorse as a professional educator.

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 10:57 #23963

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@paurray

I really don't think it's there yet. It is getting there, but the new features being added are blinding people to the incompleteness of the basics that haven't been addressed yet.

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 13:47 #23967

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Thanks for the clarification, Ben. However, I have the feeling that, with FCP X, we are confronted with the taste of a new generation. While I agree with you that training is important, this new generation doesn't have any interest in it. I know a lot of "aspiring filmmakers" who don't have the slightest clue of the photographic background of video, and I'd assume that stretches to the editing portion.

Those snotnosed YouTube gurus who got an iMac for Christmas and pirate FCP to have their first tutorial up at New Years Eve seem to be standard way of learning nowadays. Spend money on a training from you or Ripple? Heck, the internet is free!

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 15:05 #23969

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@ NocoDave

Good point in a world full of pixie dust… I still do not understand why combining Geo Location data with the Time of the Day is still voodoo!!!

@ cgbier

Those snotnosed YouTube gurus who got an iMac for Christmas and pirate FCP to have their first tutorial up at New Years Eve seem to be standard way of learning nowadays. Spend money on a training from you or Ripple? Heck, the internet is free!

I understand entirely what you are saying. Being a one man show and all that, I have to learn a lot of stuff myself from Virtual Servers too Joomla and indeed FCP X. Speaking for myself I get stomach cramps when I hear some 18 year old taking more than 30 seconds to tell me that he is going to show me how to do blah with blah. Like I googled it. Found his video which is called how to do Blah with blah. So I have already lost 60 seconds of my life before he tells me that I first need to login to the blah interface.

The advantage with Apple, Ripple & Co, is that people like this sit down and figure how to get you into a bubble. In the case in point a FCP bubble. It is a little like the forbidden City in Beijing. You get there. You see it from the outside and you think yeah OK big deal, then you go in the first gate and you think alright it is kind of impressive. By the time you get through the 5th of 6th gate you are back in ancient China bowing your head going to see the emperor. It just works and has been doing so for some time…because it has been thought through to the end!

Having personally taught dozens of Official Apple FCP Classic courses I can speak from experience. It is like brain washing in a positive sense. You spiral down in increasingly narrower circles before the people who are learning are inside the bubble and there is no escape. Every time you take the dive as a trainer, you also learn a lot yourself in the process. And when you factor what you learn doing hands on training into producing an online video COURSE you have a distinct advantage over aforementioned "YouTube Gurus."

I am certified to teach FCP 7 & X, Apple style. Whilst I had some great trainers along the way. I basically taught myself how to do pretty much every thing. And hand on heart I regret not haven taken more professional training.

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Last edit: by paurray.

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 15:16 #23970

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When FCPX first came out we had a foundation, it wasn't rock solid, but it had great potential. Today we have a foundation that still isn't rock solid. It just has more features, abilities and still has the same potential it had 2 years ago.

No pixie dust.

Once the basic operations work it will start to be taken seriously. IMO we would be closer to full industry acceptance if the basic timeline and animation features that were there from the start were taken past the foundation level, or even made functional, rather than jumping straight into multi cam and external monitoring features etc.

All important tools, but just being added in the wrong order. FCPX got heavily criticised, for being non-pro on release. Many legacy users thought it was features that made it that way and Apple responded. Today it is getting there but were still having this conversation and Apple are still working on plans to get round it.

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Last edit: by NocoDave. Reason: grammar

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 16:57 #23972

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I was watching the Editors Lounge pre NAB videos. Very informative and even funny. :lol:

vimeo.com/63361527

The touch edit guy was on there and he said something pretty interesting. (Part 3 or 4/Not sure)

He described himself as an Avid owner and power user since 1992.

He said that although he was a power user that he did not have a clue about 60/70% of the Avid functions. His justification being that AVID is an over bloated battle ship. Fair enough. This is the same for me when I have my editors cap on. In the last going on 20 years I have used multi cam twice. And I am sure that their are people who use it every day and could not live without it.

I guess that it is a tight rope act between keeping people who want bells and whistles happy and people who just want to be able to edit not to mention the haters. And one mans bell is another mans whistle and all that…

The Touch Edit guy also mentioned that the present install for Avid whatever he is using is over 6GB. It is a little like a city that has been built, raised and built countless times. The panel even joked that if you dug a little you could probably find bones of some former AVID CEOs in there among the ruins of previous foundations.

Sure the original FCP X launch. Yep. Lets not even go there. Sure the FCP X team are not perfect they might be seduced by Pixie dust , particularly when the moon is blue. But they have one big advantage. They have gone back to ground zero and even if they get lost now they can still find their way back to home base!

Speaking for myself I am happy with FCP X. I do not have to do much clicking. I set my In and my Out and throw stuff into the timeline. Most of my little tricks from FCP Classic still work in FCP X. And I can export my video for the internet. I missed the second viewer and it is back. I missed the ability to not able to change the height of the timeline easily and it is back… I never was so crazy about patching stuff in the timeline to A1&A2 or A3&A4 or A5&A6 and it is gone etc.

As of now I just want to be able to do my GPS/Time candy flip and be able to easily share projects with collaborators. And yeah being able to customise the interface more would be cool. Like imagine having a private mode and a client mode. Private mode looks even more like iMovie and client mode has lots of blinking lights, bells and whistles for the ooh ahh effect ;)

I have been using OS X since day one. And by and large I love working on a Mac. As far as I am concerned it has the best foundation and makes the most sense hands down. However I can not convey the depths of my contempt. Yes I do not use that word lightly, contempt for the "finder." I have jumped through a lot of twisted hoops in my life but I still do not understand the finder to this day. It is warped. And I am not talking time warp. I open one window and it is tiny. I open another window and it is huge. The columns are either way to big or small and I have to double click on that little wrong way around equals sign…

So what do I do?

I use a work around. I use "Path Finder" it keeps me sane in the twisted world of the finder in a mac world. It is all boxes, inside boxes, inside boxes… And I am not going to throw out the baby with the bath water just so I can solve one problem, in order to be confronted by other more horrible problems… :woohoo:

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Last edit: by paurray.

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 19:12 #23973

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ps : The essence of training…

Leading people into your/their bubble of choice.

Credit where credit is due.

Is this inspiring or is it just me?

I know no other kick quite like it :cheer:

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Last edit: by paurray.

10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 19:21 #23974

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"Once the basic operations work it will start to be taken seriously."

Taken seriously by who? People on this forum are taking it seriously. Are we unimportant and irrelevant? If we're talking about the post industry at large, does it matter if they're taking it seriously at this point? If it does, please explain why.

"IMO we would be closer to full industry acceptance if the basic timeline and animation features that were there from the start were taken past the foundation level, or even made functional, rather than jumping straight into multi cam and external monitoring features etc."

Respectfully, I disagree.

I think 'full industry acceptance' is a fallacy. If Final Cut Pro X continues to mature as a product I think some of the editors and shops that initially shunned it may give it consideration, but I think there's a contingent of the industry that has likely washed its hands of Apple altogether that will not come back to the Mac platform or FCPX.

I think there's another segment that will continue working on Macs (especially if the new Mac Pros meet their satisfaction) but who will continue to eschew Final Cut Pro X. Unlike a decade ago, there are a number of very viable, very affordable alternatives to FCP and Avid out there for editors to choose from. I imagine the landscape is going to stay diversified for some time to come.

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 19:26 #23975

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There are millions of Sams just dying to jump aboard. See previous post. :P

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 20:19 #23976

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This is one thing that I really love about apple. They designed fcpx knowing tha it will be run on osx which will be run on their hardware that was designed for that operating system.

It's the same benefit you get with the iOS devices.

Nobody else has that.

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 20:38 #23977

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Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that the people on this forum are taking it seriously and of course were not unimportant and irrelevant, that has never been said. Were probably the most important and most relevant source for those looking into FCPX and that's why I think it's important to say it like it is.

I think were, potentially, in a dangerous position where FCPX is building on top of something that is incomplete. If the basics don't get addressed soon there are going to be so many complexities relating to new features when they do get looked at. For me the important features of an NLE are media management, and from day 1 it was years ahead of any other NLE. Basic editing, the magnetic timeline had massive potential from day 1 and is not much further past it's initial state. And basic colour work. I'm a fan of the colour board, it's had some minor work too but also has great potential and aspects that need addressing.

For many the ability to do basic effect work and titling is an important feature of an NLE, for me it's not the most important but it is very nice to have. Here again we have massive potential but no real way to properly control what is there, just like in the initial release.

I really think this stuff should have been completed first, I recon it may have been if Apple weren't under pressure straight off relating to adding features.

I think it's very important to get full industry acceptance for the future of FCPX, it can only do good for us. When legacy FCP was around it was accepted, there was an abundance of relevant material and interest relating to it, as there is for Premiere and Avid. I know a lot of people use Sony Vegas, but it is generally not accepted and there is comparably little around for the users.

I love FCPX, and I am confident it will get there. At the moment I'm really not happy with how it's getting there and can see the dangers that may be ahead from it's beginning direction.

My opinion, and I do respect that others have theirs, is that the way to do this is to make it work properly.

Anyone in the position to be trying it out can only try out what is there already, and can then only find the problems with what is there. If there was little, or no, problems for them to find I believe that would do better than if all they see is growth with continuing problems.

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 21:00 #23980

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I'd probably have done training by now if I knew more about it. I don't know how much it costs or what would be different compared to the videos I watch online.

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10.08 released!! 07 Apr 2013 21:07 #23981

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"For many the ability to do basic effect work and titling is an important feature of an NLE, for me it's not the most important but it is very nice to have. Here again we have massive potential but no real way to properly control what is there, just like in the initial release."

What do you mean by 'properly control what is there'? What controls do you find to be missing with the titling tool?

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