fbpx
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ?

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 24 Aug 2013 22:41 #30355

  • ronny courtens
  • ronny courtens's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 4237
  • Karma: 196
  • Thank you received: 896
I agree with the points you have made, Craig. And I'm with you that it would make everyone happy if the next major update would be free as well. But there will always be fixes, better features or improved workflows with every update, just like it happens with any other software. So where can you draw the line?

One thing in defense of your arguments is that Apple certainly doesn't need the money. The income they can get from FCPX, even if it would become the most used NLE in the world, only represents an insignificant fraction of their total profit. So yes they could also offer the next update for free. I think much will depend on how significant this release will be. If it is very significant I think no-one will be reluctant to pay for it.

- Ronny

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 24 Aug 2013 23:11 #30362

  • cseeman
  • cseeman's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 746
  • Karma: 6
  • Thank you received: 59
The problem in this case is fixing Apple's bad PR situation which can impact sales of Macs. Once they can get passed that they can proceed as normal. It's not FCPX income so much as Mac sales and I think pulling those maybes into smiles will increase MacPro sales.

Creative Cloud is a very significant upgrade for PPro users and there's lots of unhappiness in that camp due to the subscription model.

Apple was already hit hard with the initial FCPX release and aggravated by the long development cycle needed for the new MacPro.

Apple seems to be very conscious of MacPro sales. They were running a MacPro ad in movie theaters here (for the Job's movie, not sure of others). Not sure if it was running outside the USA.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 27 Aug 2013 13:08 #30469

  • sirdavidabraham
  • sirdavidabraham's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Boarder
  • Senior Boarder
  • Musician, Geek and Spinach lover.
  • Posts: 79
  • Karma: 1
  • Thank you received: 3
The bad PR will never, ever be fixed at least not by a free update. When people are pissed they stay pissed no matter what you do.

Better to cut bait and make amazing updates and charge a fair price to those who were not casualties of the previous launch blunder.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 27 Aug 2013 16:09 #30479

  • cseeman
  • cseeman's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 746
  • Karma: 6
  • Thank you received: 59

sirdavidabraham wrote: The bad PR will never, ever be fixed at least not by a free update. When people are pissed they stay pissed no matter what you do.

Better to cut bait and make amazing updates and charge a fair price to those who were not casualties of the previous launch blunder.


I think you're misunderstanding me. Nothing can be done about the naysayers... but there's a large group of people who went beyond the trial and decided to buy FCPX but found it was lacking after investing the time to learn it. Those people are waiting to see if it'll finally get the features they need. The difference between free and paid re-purchase is the difference between staying with FCPX and Mac or moving to another NLE and leaving the Mac platform at some point as all the other NLEs allow.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 00:19 #30488

  • BenB
  • BenB's Avatar
  • Offline
  • User is blocked
  • User is blocked
  • Posts: 10103
  • Karma: -34
  • Thank you received: 1279
I can't resist, I have to post this, y'all are having way too much fun here.

So how do other NLE developers justify charging for upgrades? Those also offer new/missing features, fixes, etc, that those NLEs never had before. So folks are paying for NLE upgrades that include things those other NLEs should have had in the first place, also? Just thinking out loud...

As for paying for an upgrade, well, that's how software works. Minor updates are free, major upgrades are paid for, period. Nothing has, or is going to change about that. FCPX is no different.

And one more time, at NAB 2013 Apple stated to many of us face to face, that a paid update is eventually coming, and they promised when it did, it would be justified and appropriate. Personally, I trust them on that.

Also, personally, I couldn't care less what NLE folks use, I use and teach and support FCPX. Outside of that, don't care.

One thing about FCPX and how much money it makes Apple, this was also stated at the NAB 2013 Apple presentation; The packaging of legacy Final Cut Studio editions accounted for 75% of the total product price. That is how FCPX can cost only $299 and still make Apple a profit. Also remember it has sold more copies in the first year than FCS3 did in it's entire life span. Today, FCPX continues to outsell any previous version of FCP. Even though FCP users are still a drop in the bucket of total Mac users, FCPX is definitely pulling it's own financial weight.

AND, with sales numbers like that, seeing as how FCP 7 owned 53%, or there about (it was over 50%, and that was not an Apple generated survey), of the professional NLE market. And since FCPX is VASTLY outselling 7, I find it hard to believe that it is as not-used as some folks (on other forums) claim. Some really huge chunk of the NLE population is buying it up faster than PPro and MC. Simple math. Apple is super happy about those numbers, too. Do they care if these are pros, prosumers, or high school kids? I sure don't, my classes still sell, and 50% of my students are long time working pros. Then again, define "professional" editor by today's standards. Very difficult to do. Just like Industry standards are a thing of the past...

Now, if packaging cost 75% of the product's total retail price, how much do you think PPro REALLY costs today? 3 months of subscription, it is paid for, and you keep paying, and paying, and paying, and paying. What a rip off!

This is fun, guys! What a really interesting thread!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 02:14 #30494

  • Disproportionate Pictures
  • Disproportionate Pictures's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1433
  • Karma: 11
  • Thank you received: 64

BenB wrote: And one more time, at NAB 2013 Apple stated to many of us face to face, that a paid update is eventually coming, and they promised when it did, it would be justified and appropriate.


And that's really it. All the rest of this is just spitballing and pontificating. There's no harm in it, Ben.

I'm sure when Apple charges for an update it will be worth it. The question is will this coming update be the one they charge for? What does Apple consider justified and appropriate? Especially in the context of FCPX's launch.

FCPX does differ in one respect to other NLEs. While every update to PP or AVID brings new features and functionality, FCP7 to FCPX was a regression in some ways. That's not something people are used to in software. I completely understand WHY they did it, and what they released was improved in some fundamental ways- but that doesn't negate what was removed. A lot of that has been put back, and in just about all cases better than before.

But much of what I think people are looking for are not "next generation" features, but a solidification of the foundation and the filling in of the remaining holes in workflow. That would be a major update. But would that be an update Apple would charge for?

The good news is we'll know our answer relatively soon. And I'm pretty excited. I already know of one thing in there that's going to make people happy... :whistle:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 08:26 #30503

  • Jimmyfinn
  • Jimmyfinn's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: 4
  • Thank you received: 14
I already know of one thing in there that's going to make people happy...

But you couldn't possible say.......... ;)

I'll take a stab.... A revision of Roles to make them a truly awesome feature in X

PS. I consider learning X over the last two years as an investment.
Would I happily pay for 10.1? Absolutely! As an editor, X has been a very
enjoyable (and frustrating!) App to learn, it's cost me less than 25p per day, and I OWN it!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Jimmyfinn.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 10:28 #30508

  • Andreas Kiel
  • Andreas Kiel's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1019
  • Karma: 32
  • Thank you received: 175
As I said some time before: I'd be happy to pay for a new version even if it is just a more or less fix of all the known bugs or update of non correctly working features -- whatever you call it.
In case it is only this it needs some PR why you have to pay just to make people happy and believers that Apple cares.
In any other case it's the same.

If I look at myself (as a one of million), a real lover of Roles other metadata and XML I do see a big potential there and a lot of leaks.
An example: I'm often enough involved in subtitles. I discussed with Apple years ago that subtitles should be attached to a clip to have the subtitles available thru all the editing workflow. Now it's possible - loved it from the beginning (and created free apps for that).
But then the kind of disappointment started short after: making a translation, spell or grammar check. It's possible using XML translations tools. Bad thing is that XML loses all settings/parameters and you have to start over to reformat hundreds+ of subtitles. Using roles can be a help there - if you have one language only. Bad thing is that you can't use all settings in the Inspector for a "role group" -- some don't work at all.
If you got multiple languages and styles roles won't be enough or at least very confusing -- old fashioned tracks had been better to a certain extend.
You may try notes. But these are not working for (sub)titles within the FCPX interface.
Some people at Apple call the above "bugs". I call it "missing features"
So finally I (and several others) would be happy to pay even only for that fix/enhancement cause we make some money on this (or lose it if not fixed).

Just some thoughts
-Andreas

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 11:18 #30509

  • NocoDave
  • NocoDave's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 825
  • Karma: 11
  • Thank you received: 122
I've been enjoying reading opinions on this and have been thinking about the pro's and cons of each persons thoughts, all of which are relevant, have their merits and are of course rightful opinions.

I've settled with a simple ideal for me.

I'd like to see greater standards in software releases across the board. When it comes down to it if any company wasn't to release their software until it is fully featured and 100% bug free we would probably never see any software releases.

I'd just like to see initial releases having what ever features they include being complete, then followed by free maintenance updates if necessary, which would surely be less so if the initial release had higher standards. Then any new/enhanced feature updates could be paid for or free at the creators discretion, but fitting with the same standards as the initial release in relation to completeness.

I just see it as giving the consumer the best options. I'd rather have the option to pay for an update or skip it depending on what new features it includes and whether they are of any use to me. The idea of having the choice to continue working with an incomplete version, be forced to pay for the completion of features already paid for along with other new features or scrapping the app and moving on, in my vision, isn't favourable for the consumer as a whole.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 20:34 #30527

  • Redifer
  • Redifer's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 857
  • Thank you received: 79

BenB wrote: The packaging of legacy Final Cut Studio editions accounted for 75% of the total product price.


I know I'm probably waaaay off my rocker here to the point of needing to be committed to a mental institution, but I have a very hard time believing that the box, discs, and books in Final Cut Studio cost $750. Even if you got the stuff at the discounted price of $400, there's no way the packaging is worth $300. It's not like they were hard cover editions printed on heavy paper and the discs didn't come in diamond-encrusted jewel cases. No, we got cheaply-made paperbacks with standard paper and thin paper sleeves for the discs. The same sleeves you can get 300 for like $5 at Micro Center. And even if you accounted for shipping, retailer markup, etc that figure is still way too high. Especially when I had to pay shipping when I order it from Apple's already marked-up website (plus tax, WTF?). If it really costs Apple $400-$700 for the physical stuff that come with FCP7, then they really don't know anything about manufacturing or are being ripped off by the companies that do it for them.

But I'm pretty sure the lowered price on X is mostly to get people to buy it. And it worked!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Redifer.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 21:30 #30528

  • Julian
  • Julian's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 377
  • Karma: 5
  • Thank you received: 32

Redifer wrote:

BenB wrote: The packaging of legacy Final Cut Studio editions accounted for 75% of the total product price.


I know I'm probably waaaay off my rocker here to the point of needing to be committed to a mental institution, but I have a very hard time believing that the box, discs, and books in Final Cut Studio cost $750. Even if you got the stuff at the discounted price of $400, there's no way the packaging is worth $300. It's not like they were hard cover editions printed on heavy paper and the discs didn't come in diamond-encrusted jewel cases. No, we got cheaply-made paperbacks with standard paper and thin paper sleeves for the discs. The same sleeves you can get 300 for like $5 at Micro Center. And even if you accounted for shipping, retailer markup, etc that figure is still way too high. Especially when I had to pay shipping when I order it from Apple's already marked-up website (plus tax, WTF?). If it really costs Apple $400-$700 for the physical stuff that come with FCP7, then they really don't know anything about manufacturing or are being ripped off by the companies that do it for them.

But I'm pretty sure the lowered price on X is mostly to get people to buy it. And it worked!


I think when Ben explained it a while ago, he mentioned that a lot of the cost is in the creation of the packaging. Actually designing the packages and stuff like that, but I could be remembering incorrectly.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 22:24 #30529

  • ejis1979
  • ejis1979's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
I've been thinking lately for those people hasn't purchase the previous version of FCPX yet, when the new upgrade of FCPX release, it will cost them $600 plus $60 each for Motion 5 and Compressor 4 instead of $50 each. Is that correct?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 22:30 #30530

  • NocoDave
  • NocoDave's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 825
  • Karma: 11
  • Thank you received: 122

it will cost them $600 plus $60 each for Motion 5 and Compressor 4 instead of $50 each. Is that correct?


Nobody knows, not even if it will be paid at all yet, it's just thoughts on what might be.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 23:10 #30531

  • TonyBSyr
  • TonyBSyr's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 84
  • Thank you received: 3
Packaging costs had little to do with how they chose to price FCPX or older versions of Final Cut. 95 percent of the cost has to be the development cost, not for books or CDs. The low price of FCPX is clearly a marking strategy to gain a large share of the editing market from as many potential users as possible. How much they charge for the next upgrade has more to do with how much improvement and how it will be valued by users. Some have said Apple doesn't need the cash. Well that isn't how business works. Wall Street always expects a greater return and that will play as much a role as any other strategy. I feel the have done an outstanding job with the recent upgrades in creating a stable product that surely satisfies most users. Unless the come up with something spectacular, I don't see a huge price increase. The only thing to worry about is if they should go the Adobe route and try to charge a never ending user fee. That would, in my view, cause a huge outrage. Do they want to take a really nasty hit to their image. I think not.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 28 Aug 2013 23:21 #30533

  • Disproportionate Pictures
  • Disproportionate Pictures's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1433
  • Karma: 11
  • Thank you received: 64

ejis1979 wrote: I've been thinking lately for those people hasn't purchase the previous version of FCPX yet, when the new upgrade of FCPX release, it will cost them $600 plus $60 each for Motion 5 and Compressor 4 instead of $50 each. Is that correct?


Right now there is NO capacity for upgrade pricing on the appStore.

So it's either going to be free for existing users, and new users will have to pay the regular $299 price.

OR

It will be a paid update and everyone will pay the same price. Both new and existing users.

* Edited to add that at this point there's no firm information on updates this fall for either Motion or Compressor. I think we're all hoping they'll get updated at the same time, but since they're no longer a "suite" that doesn't have to happen.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Disproportionate Pictures.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 29 Aug 2013 00:11 #30534

  • soarininmotion
  • soarininmotion's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Junior Boarder
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: -4
  • Thank you received: 3
Where does the $600 come from? If someone hasn't bought it before, they just pay $299 when the new one comes out. No reason to buy the current, soon to be old, one.
Again, with a net worth well over 300M, you'd think Schiller woulda let the 99%'ers know if it was gonna be a new paid upgrade or not.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by soarininmotion.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 29 Aug 2013 00:12 #30535

  • ejis1979
  • ejis1979's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor

Disproportionate Pictures wrote:

ejis1979 wrote: I've been thinking lately for those people hasn't purchase the previous version of FCPX yet, when the new upgrade of FCPX release, it will cost them $600 plus $60 each for Motion 5 and Compressor 4 instead of $50 each. Is that correct?


Right now there is NO capacity for upgrade pricing on the appStore.

So it's either going to be free for existing users, and new users will have to pay the regular $299 price.

OR

It will be a paid update and everyone will pay the same price. Both new and existing users.

* Edited to add that at this point there's no firm information on updates this fall for either Motion or Compressor. I think we're all hoping they'll get updated at the same time, but since they're no longer a "suite" that doesn't have to happen.



I think that would be impossible if everyone will paying the same price for the upgrade. If we look at this, when the first version of FCPX (10.0.0) came out 2011, everyone had to pay $299.99, right? Each quarter of the year, they updated the FCPX from 10.0.1 to 10.0.9, correct? So, when Apple FCPX developers announced the new upgrade price for $299.99 this coming fall.

Anyone who hasn't bought the previous of FCPX, the FCPX developers will charge them(new users) a total of $600 and/or $60 each more for Motion 5 and Compressor 4. Because, they haven't purchased the current version of FCPX yet or they only tried the 30 days trial. Right?

But as far as for the current users goes, FCPX users will only get charge for the upgrade price ($299.99) as well as the upgrade price for Motion 5 and Compressor 4 like maybe, $10 for each one. Because, they already been purchased those 3 softwares since the current version of FCPX, Motion and Compressor.I also believe that new upgrade for Motion and Compressor will be more advance and sophisticated as FCPX.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by ejis1979.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 29 Aug 2013 00:19 #30537

  • Disproportionate Pictures
  • Disproportionate Pictures's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1433
  • Karma: 11
  • Thank you received: 64
@ejis1979

If a developer wants to charge for a new version of an app, be it $4.99 or $299, everyone MUST pay the same price the way the appStore currently exists- there's no way around it.

Upgrade prices do not exist in the appStore.

Also, Apple has not announced a price for the update coming this fall. But it will be either $299 or $0.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Disproportionate Pictures.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 29 Aug 2013 00:26 #30538

  • ejis1979
  • ejis1979's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor

Disproportionate Pictures wrote: @ejis1979

If a developer wants to charge for a new version of an app, be it $4.99 or $299, everyone MUST pay the same price the way the appStore currently exists- there's no way around it.

Upgrade prices do not exist in the appStore.

Also, Apple has not announced a price for the update coming this fall. But it will be either $299 or $0.



@Disproportionate Pictures

Well, I hope that they won't charge us $299 for the upgrade. Anyway, thank you for respond. I really appreciate that.

This upgrade things going on my head. I was just trying to do a mathematical thing.Perhaps, I could be wrong. LOL.. Anyway, you have a good one. Peace! :-)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by ejis1979.

Would you pay for FCPX 10.1 ? 29 Aug 2013 00:32 #30540

  • Disproportionate Pictures
  • Disproportionate Pictures's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1433
  • Karma: 11
  • Thank you received: 64
No problem. IF Apple was going to allow upgrade pricing, it would have been introduced at WWDC in June. They may do it in the future, but it will be NEXT June before that possibly might come up again.

But the way the appStore seems to be working, Apple doesn't seem interested. Logic 9 was $199, and the just released Logic X was also $199 for everyone. No reason to expect that to change for FCPX.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.