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TOPIC: VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;)

VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 04 May 2016 06:09 #76350

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latest of the FCPX Virtual User Group is avail, very much focussed on Colloborative workflows, Mike Matzdorff comes up with a surprisingly simple 8$ solution, Sam Mestmann shows things I haven't understood, and finally they talk 'hours' about VR, Mark Spencer demoes some beta-software which allows basic compositing in 3D/VR/360° .... (did I miss any other buzzword?)

... a very 'pro' VUG .... says the hobbyist.
Steve Martin created the word FinalCut propro .... :woohoo:

'our' 3D-senseis, nurbz' robots, fox' chess board and Luigi's katana, are mentioned! ... "if you have enough time…"


(and, btw, a lil' low volume, but finally audio at all! not to mention #6 .... :evil: )

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Last edit: by Karsten Schlüter.

VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 04 May 2016 13:14 #76353

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It was more annoying than informing, a great concept ruined by bad planning and terrible audio.
Alex Lindsey is not cut out to host, he has no idea and gets caught up in the moment, and looses control of the conversation, there is no one directing, there is a semi competent technical "director" we call them vision mixers here, but no actual director to control the flow of conversation.

A few pearls of wisdom in a sea of rambling conversation, this was really a struggle to sit through for 2 hours, I just wish that someone would take control away from Alex Lindsey, sorry Alex you just have no idea!!

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 04 May 2016 13:41 #76354

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I found it very entertaining, very informative, very enlightening. They did a great job. Having run an FCPUG for almost ten years, and having spoken at length to other former FCPUG leaders, I can tell you this is done really nicely. Has the traditional flavor of the old FCPUG's that meet RL, but organized and controlled way better. Bravo guys!

Interesting fact they brought up:
- If you purchased FCPX when it was first released, you have now paid about $60 per YEAR for it.
- PPro, at $20 per month, is costing you $240 per year, or $1200 since FCPX was first released.

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 04 May 2016 17:33 #76380

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No audio from this video on my iPhone 6S via the Youtube app. Strange!


Wait.... I can hear audio using headphones....Hmmm, without the headphones not audio from speaker!
LLAP,
James
Taipei, Taiwan

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Last edit: by wdevn.

VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 04 May 2016 17:40 #76381

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The audio on the video I watched, it seems was recorded deep in a toilet bowl, someone needs to explain to Alex that walls, that is vertical walls, like in a box shaped room will echo, a long forgotten concept something I was taught, standing waves.

My studio here, where I work, is a box, and we have terrible audio problems, due to standing waves, but the old radio studios, built in the 1950's has baffles and noise catchers built in, the sound in the radio studio is perfect, I can stand 6 feet from someone in the tv studio and not hear them, move 2 feet either side, still 6 feet in a straight line, I can hear them. Why?

The sound bouncing off the wall is a millisecond out of phase, and is not cancelled out, with this latest vug, this it seems was the problem, no egg boxes on the walls, nothing to stop sound bouncing off the walls, and reflecting into the mics, 4 walls, 1 roof, naked walls, a sound engineers nightmare!!

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 04 May 2016 18:47 #76385

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MsJustine wrote: The audio on the video I watched, it seems was recorded deep in a toilet bowl, someone needs to explain to Alex that walls, that is vertical walls, like in a box shaped room will echo, a long forgotten concept something I was taught, standing waves!


The audio on this is fine.

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 04 May 2016 20:43 #76392

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There's a glitch with mobile devices. Sometimes restarting or reloading the page helps.

What Justine is referring too is simple reverb that is natural to all rooms, is controlled with acoustic tiles like from Auralex, and her scientific explanation is technically off. Simple reverb.

The audio I'm hearing via my Adam-A7 monitors is very clean, very professional.

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Last edit: by BenB.

VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 00:02 #76398

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I tried restarting the iPhone and still no audio from the speaker. Headphone yes....strange.
LLAP,
James
Taipei, Taiwan

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 03:24 #76401

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wdevn wrote: I tried restarting the iPhone and still no audio from the speaker. Headphone yes....strange.



could be a hardware glitch inside the hp connector - plug/unplug a few times... are these original hp from apple?

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 04:54 #76402

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Hi Karsten,

This is a strange bug but one that can be fixed. If it's a hardware glitch why do other videos posted on this and other sites play well through the iPhone speaker? Also, videos posted on Youtube play play via the Youtube app correctly through the speaker.

The problem is with the audio phasing which is creating audio cancellation. I confirmed this by sending the audio through a DEQ2496 and an app from Voxengo and iZotope.

I'm afraid the sound needs some work. Rarely come across this.
LLAP,
James
Taipei, Taiwan

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 05:01 #76403

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wdevn wrote: ...
The problem is with the audio phasing which is creating audio cancellation. I confirmed this by sending the audio through a DEQ2496 and an app from Voxengo and iZotope....


ooops!
pixelcorps published a video with inverted phases?? That would be a new level of fail, after VUG#6 where they miss to switch on the hosts mic .. :silly:

and sorry for my 'advice'... lost on translation...

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 05:26 #76404

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No Karsten! Sorry for the misunderstanding. Your "advice" IS needed! I may not have presented my question correctly. You and others here make this the best place to be for FCPX information.

Thanks!
LLAP,
James
Taipei, Taiwan

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Last edit: by wdevn.

VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 11:40 #76417

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So, you have this wonderful presentation that these guys rush to do after a hard day's work, do not get paid for (Ms. Justine can tell you how wrong that is to ever do), or you could have nothing. Which would you chose? Looking a gift horse in the mouth and all that. Very disappointing to see such a wonderful resource, given to us for free, get slammed for minor issues, rather than praised for the great information and discussion we get... FOR FREE. Very disappointing.

Where's the live discussion groups you guys are producing? Which one here is going to do it better themselves?

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 11:56 #76421

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If you are going to do something, do it right the 1st time, I understand they are busy, and this is free, but Alex Lindsey is not as talented a host as he thinks he is, the problem is that a director free from the discussion controls the host, so that the host as often happens, gets caught up in the moment and it drags on and on.

This is not the first time VUG rambled on way past topic, the idea is great, it just needs to be controlled from outside of the discussion table. If they had a director directing Alex via earpiece, then more questions would be covered, more tips shown, a better product.

I know it can and should be better, this is the 7th iteration of VUG, and after at least the 5th, it should be tight as a drum, professional, but this is sloppy, unprofessional almost amateur hour!!

Great concept with the guests each having a monitor, but the one scene with the handheld, what was shown, out of focus, un-stabilized, under exposed, poor advanced planning.

To BenB "Ms. Justine can tell you how wrong that is to ever do" I have no idea what this sentence means, maybe something about being paid..not sure, I am aspie, and two thoughts in the same sentence confuses me!! Not sure you mean dont rush, dont get paid???

Look I am that kid in the fable that everyone in the village hates for asking the right question, deal with it, I am not going to stop asking good questions, if I see something is not right, I am going to question it, these guys are professional, they should produce as professionals!

I was disappointed as well, it would have been better to have waited a few days, edited it better, I did offer before to do the editing, we can practice, develop techniques about sending material and linking, I would love to write a fcp.co front pager...About how I edited it, how it was sent to me, how I linked back, and for mahala!!!

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 05 May 2016 13:29 #76425

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MsJustine wrote: … deal with it, I am not going to stop asking good questions, …



You don't ask questions, MSJustine.
You turn threads into an 'about me, MSJustine', ....

That's called threadjacking, a rude violation of manners.
And as Moderator, I'm in position to delete it from here.
Been there, done that, my threshhold is low leveled.

… and, besides, VUG is a recording of a live-edited talk... your suggestion, how you would do it, is irrelevant.
And it doesn't get 'better' by adding more tips. It's quality IS its unscripted free flow.

Just to make it clear: Topic is VUG#7
... not you, your mental condition, how you would handle things, your dreams being frontpage, etc. ....
Stay on topic, and check usage of words 'I', 'me', 'my' before hitting Submit....

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 06 May 2016 11:02 #76437

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Ms Justine,

Please don't keep turning threads on to 'I could have edited this better' etc. etc. Pixel Corps provide the recording and publishing of the VUGs for free. We get what we are given and should be thankful for it.

If you have a problem with the show, contact them directly, not through here.

Ok, the technical quality of the latest VUG is now not an issue, we move on.

Peter
Administrator

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 06 May 2016 12:33 #76440

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Having produced "on the spot, last minute" panels like this, only in front of a large audience for events, this actually came out pretty well. So much can go wrong, so much does go wrong, you work with what you have.

If this had been pre-planned, everything set up the previous day, everyone showed up in the morning and did nothing but this production for a whole day, then I'd expect more.

But these guys are rushing to this, on their way home from work, to their families, tired, last minute, free form, improvising, i have to say it is a really good job.

The information about collaboration was priceless! The discussion was enlightening, and I remember a lot of that "ancient history" Alex brings up.

I also was interested when Alex pointed out how small some of these software development teams are. I'd not be surprised if FCPX only had 4 developers working on it. Having spent a couple of decades in a "previous life" as an IT engineer and project manager for a few different software companies, in enterprise level environments, I know that throwing more programmers on to a team doesn't always work. It can slow things down, and degrade quality in many situations.

I know the original FCP teams, just before and after Apple purchased it (anyone remember Macromedia), were really small. Amazing only a few folks can produce such amazingly powerful and flexible software. Most folks think it takes large armies of programmers to get things done. Nope, wrong. Software development is slow, painful, problematic, very difficult and can be mind numbingly frustrating. Kudos to Alex for pointing that out subtly.

Personally liked the lighting. It was personal, make it seem like the studio they were in was smaller than it actually was. Good editing, too. I wonder what those monitors were? And how they switched control of the FCPX Mac from user to user?


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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 06 May 2016 14:23 #76448

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I always look forward to new VUGs.
A mix of prepared tips and then banter from leading experts in the field. Having the option of asking questions during the live show, and being able to up-vote questions is icing on the cake.

Yep, being live can introduce issues. Sound was better this time around than last, but I did notice some background noise. I wonder if it was fan noise from the "Share Station" or some other equipment. Personally, I think this sound was getting amplified from all the mics (5 or more) on set. You can tell when mics were attenuated and when all were up.
I also think they attempted to EQ out the offending frequencies, so added some weird tones to vocals. Working in close proximity with multiple speakers all facing each other with lav mics can be a challenge.
Maybe there was some phase cancellation. Could this have been also from an echo reduction effect? Didn't have a problem hearing it though. This isn't audio for a CD or Hollywood film after all!

Found the topics interesting. Personally, not sure about VR/360, not my thing, but to see how others are adopting it and the growing demand made me think about it. I can see it for gaming (not a gamer myself) but for exploring locations, viewer immersion and control, OK. For story video, not so much. I do like hearing others opinions and seeing where it is going. Now when my new Holodeck arrives :silly:

Would like to hear more opinions about video delivery in terms of HDBlu-ray and HDR. Where do people see this going?

Sharing the library/project discussion was very intriguing.
The solution shown and now written by Mike M may move some more editors into the FCPX camp.
I think we will see some real improvements in the near future over this issue. Wonder if the next version of FCPX will open up some additional APIs and the Asset management in AVFoundation for even more sharing/multiple editors.

My biggest complaint with VUG is that I wish they would produce more of them. :)
Pixel Corps does offer "Double your money back" for any dissatisfied customers.

Happy editing everyone,
Greg

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 06 May 2016 15:23 #76449

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Wow, I'm surprised by the criticism. I work by myself or in a small team doing my/our own thing and don't come into contact with people using FCPX in the bigger shared workflows so it's always interesting and pleasing to hear how far people are pushing it and discovering that Apple really have thought extremely deeply about this application.

I feel I should be more interested in the VR and 360 video stuff but I'm not. It's either poor quality or ridiculously expensive and not much in between. I think 360 video could be potentially good for live concert broadcasting but I'm not so sure about narrative works. It seems to be more suited to Lumiere brothers spectacle gimmicks than something that's going to oust the TV in the room. I haven't yet seen the killer App for VR.

The problem with software development it doesn't scale linearly with the numbers of developers and can actually less efficient the more developers you add. I hope there are a similar number of FCPX developers as there are Motion developers as I think Motion will prove to be extremely important to FCPX in the future. If they want to keep FCPX as clean and uncluttered as possible then allow Motion to become a hardcore motion graphics template authoring application for the people who want the power to extend FCPX their own way.

There's obviously something big coming as there was a 'lot of energy in the room.' There's a lot of interesting patents that Apple has like the 'color cube' from Apple Color that they developed a long way to be used for keying and isolation that has yet to come to FCPX.

Looking forward to VUG8

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VUG 7 is out .... nurbz & Co mentioned ;) 06 May 2016 15:27 #76450

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VidGreg wrote: …Personally, not sure about VR/360, not my thing, but to see how others are adopting it and the growing demand made me think about it. I can see it for gaming (not a gamer myself) but for exploring locations, viewer immersion and control, OK. For story video, not so much. I do like hearing others opinions and seeing where it is going. Now when my new Holodeck arrives :silly:


Have you watched Alex Gollners presentation?
I'm a hefty nay-sayer of VR ("next 3D flop!"), but when Alex uses the controls in that Dashwood plugin, one thing instantly jumps into mind:

reframing.

And not only by bullying a rectangle upon a flat 4k plane (handy trick, used it for interviews: 1 camera, 3 pov) - no, 'in space'.

imagine a VRcam aside two persons, and in post you pan back'n forth ....
or, my domain, sports:
a VRcam at center-point over the playfield, and AFTER the move you follow the ball with your camera - without moving it!

... exotic, no mass market, games yes, AR yes (have a look at a tiny iOSapp called Photopills), fictional? no idea how that should work - but maybe VR will survive longer than 3Dtellies :)

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