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TOPIC: Simon Ubsdell's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection

Simon Ubsdell's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 17 May 2016 19:25 #76849

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Your point about Keywords is a good one - the current implementation is not ideal in terms of the Filter pane. But the Text field specifically is a field that interrogates a string in the filename so wouldn't be reassignable in the way you suggest. However, a Keyword text search option in the the keyword section would be an improvement.

I wanted to add a couple of points here in my defence, if I may.

I totally take the point that as things stand this method is sub-optimal. The Smart Collection tool is truly awesome, but it's not yet ideal for this purpose. I think if Apple thought there was mileage in this concept, then I could see ways that it could be implemented successfully, but at the moment this suggestion is more theoretical than practical.

I also wanted to make it very clear that in publishing this video I had absolutely no intention of telling experienced editors how to use FCP X - I hate it when people tell me how I should be working so I know exactly how that feels!

Nor do I make any claims about the originality of this idea. This option has been there in FCP X since the first day and I'm not pretending to have discovered anything new or ground-breaking.

What I did think was that it was an interesting way of asking the question as to what kind of media organisation you want and/or need, or could contemplate for the future.

Specifically, will it always be the case that we are dumping our material into containers, or will there come a time when we can leverage the power of metadata to a greater degree and start using something a bit more like this model?

For my part, since I started to think about this method, I have had some useful thoughts about streamlining my own media organisation into something leaner and more fit for purpose. My small hope is that some of you might find it similarly useful.

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Last edit: by Simon Ubsdell.

Simon Ubsdell's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 17 May 2016 20:04 #76850

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After watching Simon's video I feel this approach is perfectly valid.

Whether it's by Simon or someone else, I can see this idea being expanded into something very useful.

Think different....

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Simon Ubsdall's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 17 May 2016 20:32 #76851

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Simon Ubsdell wrote: Remember how long it took you to get your head around the basics concepts of FCP X when they first came along?

BenB wrote: Yeah, like 2 minutes. That was the beauty of it originally.


Ben allow me a little smile on my face reading your reply.

Anyway, as Ronny said the beauty of FCPX is the simplicity of the UI and that's very good and way better that than those of competitors. The keyword and smart collection is the most flexible way to organize media at this time. But as stated here several times it still needs a lot of typing. And things like audio transcription, Siri things are still miles away not to talked about non English content and users. (if I'm in bad mood I talk to Siri in German - after a few minutes I feel better)

But in my opinion there is not enough education about metadata and "where to find them" and their type.
Also the engineers at Apple seem to have some lacks there in my opinion.

Just a simple example: old FCP (definitively not a king of metadata) accepted scene/take/note metadata across different machines and the internet. FCPX ignores those.
There Spotlight metadata in files which are not permanent, there are embedded fix metadata, but only some of them are used, others can be used when the user teaches FCPX how to use them, but these require to set up FCPX on every machine on a non local workgroup. For some others I haven't found any way to get them into X.

Lot of room there to improve.

- Andreas

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Simon Ubsdall's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 18 May 2016 04:25 #76862

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I've been thinking of this balance between the Metadata world and the Bin/Folder/Container world for a few years. For me personally, I need to live in both worlds. The Metadata approach is great in principle, but it assumes one very important thing…that EVERYTHING you have has properly assigned metadata. That's just not realistic for me.

This is why folders/bins are so appealing. You can be lazy when want to be. They can hold your stuff until you have time to deal with it. Some of my projects require diligent metadata organization. Others require almost none at all. I like the flexibility of that. And while it would be nice to have everything "metadata-ed", I just don't have time for that. I do what I need to do and move on. Everybody's different and different workflows, jobs, teams, etc. can run differently.

As OS X started integrating more of a metadata approach at the OS level (tags, spotlight info, etc.) I thought I would adapt to more of that philosophy, but the truth is that I need both. There are many times (most?) where it's simply faster to go to that folder that you know for a fact has the files you need, rather than opening a search dialog and clicking/typing things in hopes you find what you need. That's my reality anyway.

Having said that, I think a lesson to be reminded of is the importance of metadata and how it can save you a lot of effort in the long run, however you decide to leverage it.

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Simon Ubsdell's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 18 May 2016 06:34 #76868

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Hi All

I watched the video as well and find it pretty sound.
Not sure if i would really like to work like this personally.
I am teaching some Premiere editors about FCPX the next couple of days.
And I think i will include this in my course just to show how far you can take the Meta Data Logic.
Here is a mad idea off the top of my head.
In days gone by we had a Console/Controller for e.g. Lightworks.
Imagine if there was a Meta Data controller for The Mother of all Smart Collections or what ever you want to call this concept. :woohoo:

all the best

Paul

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Last edit: by paurray.

Simon Ubsdall's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 18 May 2016 07:10 #76871

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mindbend wrote: I've been thinking of this balance between the Metadata world and the Bin/Folder/Container world for a few years. For me personally, I need to live in both worlds. The Metadata approach is great in principle, but it assumes one very important thing…that EVERYTHING you have has properly assigned metadata. That's just not realistic for me.

This is why folders/bins are so appealing. You can be lazy when want to be. They can hold your stuff until you have time to deal with it. Some of my projects require diligent metadata organization. Others require almost none at all. I like the flexibility of that. And while it would be nice to have everything "metadata-ed", I just don't have time for that. I do what I need to do and move on. Everybody's different and different workflows, jobs, teams, etc. can run differently.

As OS X started integrating more of a metadata approach at the OS level (tags, spotlight info, etc.) I thought I would adapt to more of that philosophy, but the truth is that I need both. There are many times (most?) where it's simply faster to go to that folder that you know for a fact has the files you need, rather than opening a search dialog and clicking/typing things in hopes you find what you need. That's my reality anyway.

Having said that, I think a lesson to be reminded of is the importance of metadata and how it can save you a lot of effort in the long run, however you decide to leverage it.


That's what I meant with "missing education".

In the past metadata never have been a big theme for people, mostly because NLEs don't use it. FCPX made a change in approaching this stuff
The other thing is the "lazy user". Many (depending on their job in the production chain) say something like "Puh, that's not my job !".
Times change and jobs change. For example audio Bwave files could contain a real lot of important metadata, P2 recordings and other Cam files as well. In real world they are not really used, because nobody feels responsible for those.

If everybody will "play the game" Simon's approach would be close to perfect - though it's still a long way.
And there never be an "one for all solution". But especially if you're a "one man show" you should think about this concept and how to use metadata options in your production chain.

- Andreas

P.S.
Karsten I sent you a PM

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Simon Ubsdall's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 18 May 2016 07:25 #76872

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Andreas Kiel wrote: …
P.S.
Karsten I sent you a PM


… and I answered ... hours, ach was, days ago :silly:
(added my em@il, for faster dialogue...)

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Simon Ubsdell's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 18 May 2016 07:52 #76873

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I'm not sure why there was any negativity to Simon's Super Search Field idea, it's just one of many ways of skinning the cat that FCPX affords us. What I've loved about FCPX is that it never constrains the user into a single prescribed workflow, I really do not do much organisation beyond favourites and discovering clips through the browser for normal work but for my clip archive I heavily use metadata for all my own stock clips I've shot, vfx, VJ loops and stills even noting which lenses and lighting I've used etc. Two polar extreme of use and FCPX just lets me get on with how I want to do things.

Now where's that update...

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Simon Ubsdell's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 01 Jul 2016 05:01 #78306

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I spent this afternoon testing out the "One Smart Collection" method and ran into a hitch due to the differences in the way that smart collections filter clips and ranges versus the way the search field of the browser filters clips and ranges.

I cut documentaries and constantly need to break up long interviews with searchable metadata while using as few keyword collections as possible. I name each interview clip with the name of the person interviewed, I apply a single keyword "interview" to all the interview clips. Then I go through each interview and I favorite the good responses while renaming each "favorite" range with a few identifying words of what was said.

Now, if I try to reveal ranges of an interview clip that refer to a particular phrase using only a smart collection filter, the browser will show every single favorited range of the entire interview clip, even if only one of the favorited ranges includes the text entered into the search field. This is totally not what I want. However, if I set the browser drop down menu to show only favorites and then at the browser level search for text that includes a selected word plus the name of the person along with the keyword "interview" the browser will now show only the favorited ranges containing that word from the selected interview.

Working with a master smart collection for these types of range based filters of long clips unfortunately does not work due to the way FCPX is designed. To use it at all I would need to keep the library panel open so that I can switch control of the floating window from the browser level back to the Master Smart Collection selection. This kills one of the benefits.

My unsucessful attempt to make it work highlights how the browser is an area of the UI that Apple could definitely improve upon. The most glaring issue is that there is barely any visual indication of whether the floating window is showing you the selections made for a Smart Collection or for the search field of the browser. A deeper structural problem is there are too many different areas of the UI from which selections can be made that affect what is seen in the browser. Currently we've got:
1. Selections of events, keywords, or smart collections made in the library panel
2. The browser level menu to select "All Clips", "Favorites", "Hide Rejected" etc.
3. The Smart Collections floating window
4. The Browser search field floating window

It would be much simpler if there was just a single panel for controlling the browser rather than a panel, a drop down menu, a floating window (that can be controlled from either a library selection or a browser selection) plus a search bar on the top right side. It's kind of a mess.

For most of what I do I'm unfortunately stuck using the standard browser search. I wish the One Smart Collection would work, but the current design of FCPX doesn't allow it. With luck, Apple is paying attention to Simon's great idea here to streamline the library+browser and they will update the FCPX interface to better support it.

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Simon Ubsdell's SuperSearchField... Universal Smart Collection 01 Jul 2016 18:01 #78321

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With luck, Apple is paying attention to Simon's great idea here to streamline the library+browser and they will update the FCPX interface to better support it.

I hope so too, and I'd suggest filling out the feedback form and including a link to your post (or just copy and paste it into the form) and a link to this discussion. Couldn't hurt, they actually do pay attention to feedback. :-)
Can't sleep? Try this: fcpxpert.net ;-)

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