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TOPIC: While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ......

While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 04 Dec 2016 08:48 #83616

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We're looking to add better audio to our films and we find that FCPx is a bit underwhelming in that area.

What do you guys use for more advanced audio editing and especially final mix down? Pro Tools? Logic? Other ?

If you'd like to tell me about the "round trip", I'd be very grateful - thanks in advance :)

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Last edit: by Living Smart TV.

While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 04 Dec 2016 09:53 #83617

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I find that FCPX works extremely well for audio mixing and I've had spectacular results with it. The only things I'd personally add would be 7.1 surround mixing instead of just 5.1 with the ability to create a Dolby TrueHD or DTSHDMA audio file. Also it could probably use a window of simultaneous meters (maybe based on roles?) in addition to the summed master volume meter.

I suppose it depends on what you're used to working with. If you're used to knobs and stuff FCPX won't do. I don't personally like the interface in Logic Pro very much, it doesn't feel intuitive to me. Trying to adjust a knob or dial with a mouse isn't very fun but for some reason the GUI insists on drawing them all over the place. I guess it's good if you have external equipment connected, though. My girlfriend loves it.

That said, the only time I "round trip" is if I export a single track or part of a track to iZotope. Yes, FCPX can use the iZotope filters, but FCPX does not render audio and iZotope can't perform very well when FCPX must run everything else simultaneously. So I do what I need to do in iZotope, like removing noise or clicks, repairing a little damage, de-clip, and then re-import that back into FCPX.

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Last edit: by Redifer.

While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 04 Dec 2016 14:16 #83622

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90% of our audio mixing is inside of FCPX. Learn the Audio channel configuration, roles, and lanes in the Timeline Index and how they work together. Will be worth the time learning, makes life super easy.

We occasionally use iZotope RX, but it's rare. When we do, we export an AIFF file to use with it, and reimport another AIFF file with the fixed audio.

Logic is amazing, and you don't have to use the "dials". I usually punch in numbers, but I'm very familiar with Logic, been recoding, mixing, mastering with it since before Apple had it. The round trip is pretty decent. If you have more than a dozen tracks, just be careful. The trick is when exporting your XML, be sure it is set to Audio metadata view. Then don't bother in Logic exporting it back inside FCPX, can be buggy. Just export an AIFF to bring in to FCPX. Duplicate your Project, mute or delete all the audio, an drop your new AIFF into that Project. But again, pretty rare we have to round trip to Logic for anything.

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 04 Dec 2016 14:48 #83623

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FCPX.guru wrote: 90% of our audio mixing is inside of FCPX. Learn the Audio channel configuration, roles, and lanes in the Timeline Index and how they work together. Will be worth the time learning, makes life super easy.


I'd like to learn this, but as of now, I didn't find good tutorials. I have and use the iBook FCP X User Guide, but it doesn't tell me when for instance I should not level or pan a sound effect on the clip level (as I am used to). Is there a compact answer?

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 04 Dec 2016 16:27 #83625

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There are several sites offering courses on how to mix and master sound, most geared towards music, but the concepts still apply here. That's a whole universe unto itself.

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 05 Dec 2016 14:41 #83648

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FCPX.guru wrote: There are several sites offering courses on how to mix and master sound, most geared towards music, but the concepts still apply here. That's a whole universe unto itself.


Thanks.
I know Garageband since a few years. I'm not a musician, but I found a way to produce some very basic atmospheric / mood - soundtracks by loading midis from classic pieces into Garageband, change the tempo, slightly change the theme, change the speed, change the key, delete whole instruments and mix everything in the end. Here is one example, mixed from an Eric Satie piano piece used for a clip of a subway tunnel construction site.

As you hear I'm just an amateur. But I do have a basic understanding how and why to mix music in tracks. The new role representation in a compound sequence in the new FCPX version visually reminds me of Garageband:


But in FCP X I copy sound events to the timeline. I hear at once how they sound in concert with the rest and can make all necessary adjustments immediately. Should I not do that? What are the advantages of the role mixer in general, in layman's terms?

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 05 Dec 2016 20:58 #83657

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Having been an audio editor for 20+ years before jumping into video I generally roundtrip into Pro Tools (using X to Pro and then bouncing stems & re-importing them intoFCPX) for mixing broadcast or other pieces I need to sound really good. Mainly due to using Izotope & a handful of plugins I like that work better in Pro Tools. I also use Pro Tools for proper LKFS metering and sample level audio correction if needed.

Knowing how to use compressors, EQ & limiters though the tools in FCPX are perfectly fine for getting a decent mix together on a project.

If they could make a way to put plugins on the "Master Output" or global audio output that would be super helpful in FCPX.

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 06 Dec 2016 04:44 #83667

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KarlSutton wrote: H

If they could make a way to put plugins on the "Master Output" or global audio output that would be super helpful in FCPX.


You can - just compound your audio and add plugins - then it's just like adding bus or master plugins in PT :)

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 06 Dec 2016 09:15 #83671

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Living Smart TV wrote: You can - just compound your audio and add plugins - then it's just like adding bus or master plugins in PT :)



Only in Protools you can view your master settings and the individual clip settings at the same time:


What I would have done during the last weeks with the mystical FCPX Master Audio Bus:
Change Denoise settings and listen until it is fine.

What I ended up doing:
Open Compound Clip ->
Change individual clips Denoise settings ->
Go back in Timeline history ->
Check new Denoise settings with Compression (and several other enhancements applied) ->
Open Compound Clip (or go forward in Timeline history) ->
Change Denoise settings ->
......

Poor keyboard!

I have just been experimenting with Soundflower and AU lab because I really lost some time (and nerves) during the last weeks trying to finish audio in FCPX.

Please give us the Master Audio Bus (or whatever it may be called)

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 06 Dec 2016 10:04 #83672

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hi, hi

@ nils.dettmann

I would be very curious how you get on with Soundflower and AU lab?

Do you have it working what exactly are you attempting to achieve with it?

I bought the Plugin from Klangfreund and whilst it might not be perfect…
I can at least use it to legalise my mix.
I wrote about it here:
www.finalbug.net/blog-final-cut-training...angfreund-lufs-meter

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 06 Dec 2016 10:54 #83673

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@paurray

I wanted to have the ability to hear the whole mix including the effects and changes you would apply to the whole timeline (Gain, Compression, Limiter, “Room”, …) during the work with individual clips.

As this is not possible from within FCPX I was looking for a way to do it externally.
Then I could work in the Timeline, make a compound in the end and apply the effects I had in the external application to the compound.
Not perfect and not for every workflow but would save me a lot of back and forth during editing.

I installed soundflower: github.com/mattingalls/Soundflower/releases/tag/2.0b2
and AU Lab: www.apple.com/de/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/

After installing:
1: Choose Soundflower as Output in OS X
2: Dial the Volume all the way up. (important)
3. Open AU Lab and choose input:soundflower output:”your output device eg. line out”
4. Add effects and gain

In case of the LUFS meter you could use this to monitor the meter when you adjust gain on individual clips without applying the plugin to every single clip and open the plugin settings for every clip. You could even add fixed gain and other effects in AU Lab.
In the end just compund, adjust gain and the other effects accordingly and you are are ready.
Unfortunately AU Lab can (obviously) only see AU effects. So it´s missing the effects from Logic and the effects from FCPX itself.

Hope this was understandable...

Edit:
And yes, I actually have it working. Though haven´t tested it seriously yet.

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Last edit: by nils.dettmann.

While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 06 Dec 2016 13:39 #83677

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Hi nils

I wanted to have the ability to hear the whole mix including the effects and changes you would apply to the whole timeline (Gain, Compression, Limiter, “Room”, …) during the work with individual clips.


Yes I believe I understand what you are talking about.

I guess your work flow is very different than mine.

At the end of the day I am interested in two things only:

a) A nice clean audio mix. Nothing fancy.

b) It being legal so the TV station does not throw the book at me.

The TV station hates most of the things you mentioned:

Gain, Compression, Limiter,


So I avoid them like the plague.

With respect to what you say here:

In case of the LUFS meter you could use this to monitor the meter when you adjust gain on individual clips without applying the plugin to every single clip and open the plugin settings for every clip. You could even add fixed gain and other effects in AU Lab.


This is where my brain starts to hurt.

Could you expand on what you are suggesting?

Are you talking about putting every thing in a Compound clip sending & sending this via Soundflower & AU Lab to the Klangfreund meter for monitoring on the fly on a clip by clip basis!?!


As of now I can apply the LUF meter to
a) Single Clips
b) Multiple Clips
c) Compound Clip
d) Group with any of the above!!!

I am using it as an end control rather than to mix as I go...

all the best

Paul

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Last edit: by paurray.

While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 06 Dec 2016 13:56 #83679

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paurray wrote: Are you talking about putting every thing in a Compound clip sending & sending this via Soundflower & AU Lab to the Klangfreund meter for monitoring on the fly on a clip by clip basis!?!


As of now I can apply the LUF meter to
a) Single Clips
b) Multiple Clips
c) Compound Clip
d) Group with any of the above!!!

I am using it as an end control rather than to mix as I go..

Paul


I just started with the soundflower thing, so as I wrote not tested entirely but:

The beauty is that you don´t have to make a compound clip of your timeline with the soundflower workaround.
You can send the output of an entire FCPX project or clip or compound clip to the Klangfreund meter with this.
Actually you will just send FCPXs output.

The one thing you will have to do though: If your timeline in nicely balancend and in the end the Loudness Analyzer will show that it is off the desired -23dB (?) , you will have to create a compound clip and adjust the gain of the whole clip.
(or adjust every single clip)

But during the edit you won´t have to keep going back and forth between the timeline with the compound clip and the compound clip.

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While we're waiting for better audio / mix in FCPx ...... 07 Dec 2016 08:08 #83701

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Hi Nils

I will test this. :woohoo:

thanks for your time.

all the best

Paul

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