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TOPIC: 10.4.4 Released

10.4.4 Released 17 Nov 2018 20:06 #97750

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FCPX.guru wrote: Extensions won't be in the App Store, they'll be given as plugin installs directly from the developer. And the only three available at the moment are inlaced with the update install.


This is incorrect information.

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Last edit: by smg669.

10.4.4 Released 17 Nov 2018 21:51 #97753

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I stand corrected, obviously.

Redifer, why do you use FCPX at al? Just curious. Why do you use Apple products at all?

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10.4.4 Released 17 Nov 2018 22:19 #97754

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FCPX.guru wrote: I stand corrected, obviously.

Redifer, why do you use FCPX at al? Just curious. Why do you use Apple products at all?


Got to admit I’ve been wondering that myself :-D

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10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 02:39 #97758

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FCPX.guru wrote:
Redifer, why do you use FCPX at al? Just curious. Why do you use Apple products at all?


Fair enough question. I like most Apple products. But that doesn't mean I have to be an Apple apologist like so many other Apple fanboys. Apple deserves to be called out for their errors. I feel that us Apple loyalists simply LET Apple get away with too much. No matter what Apple does, even if it's dumb, we'll praise them for being genius. Supporting less formats? Apple is genius for making sure we stay head of the curve. Don't make new Mac Pros or charge too much for their computers? It's because Apple is genius. I like the Mac OS (for the most part) and I like Final Cut Pro (for the most part). But if we do not question and criticize, things will only get worse. We shouldn't be corporate loyalists. Am I just to blindly praise Apple? That's a cult (yes, CULT) I cannot join.

Still, allowing Mac OS to be installed on PCs of our choosing would be a great thing for Apple to do, since they absolutely cannot keep up when it comes to hardware. I bet a lot of people would install Mac OS. I'd have a computer that isn't outdated. I wouldn't be forced to buy one with a built-in screen that I do not want. I could get graphics cards and CPUs and RAM and not be forced to pay an Apple Premium for them (Apple even locks out 3rd party RAM now from what I hear). But of course this will never happen, but I wish it would.

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Last edit: by Redifer.

10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 03:06 #97762

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To state the obvious Apple is doing less for more...From a 17 inch macbook pro to a 13 inch macbook pro with how many ports??? What is next no ports, and wireless charging??

Apple has taken away the headphone 3.5mm jack, so how do we edit on a plane?

There was 2 ways Apple could have chosen and they chose the path of most pain for most users, why? Redifer is 100% correct, we need to comment and to criticize, if not how else can we express frustration??

Many of the small faults in FCPX have yet to be resolved, Apple does not address or even try and fix the faults from early releases, it just releases new updates onto faulty product, 2 examples..

The inability to zoom into the timeline when in listview mode...why no zoom in/out, makes sense it should be active..
Example 2: Proxy files...why only 1 flavour? Yes there are workarounds, solutions to a problem that should not exist in the first place...You might not need a proxy workflow, others do...

Which leads me onto point 3...Apple haas provided 360 camera editing, how many need this over the number of users that need an improved proxy worklow??? What was more important 360 or proxy workflow???

Then 10.4.4 with the comparison color window. limited to 30 saves per project?? In a 64bit app, when actually markers would have been more effective and useful, Apple decided to not go down that route and instead chose a dead end project..why???

Then the extensions...the ripple twins say there are 3..actually it is 2..and it was not easy to find or install, then once you find this, apps are installed, and mind you not very well, the app external to FCPX don't play all that well and if you bother to check, the extensions are not listed in the official systems preferences under extensions why???

Why take away support of legacy files at this point? Maybe in 30 years after the launch it makes some sort of sense, now, it is just stupid? What is Apple saying? We need to keep updating our projects every few months to prevent loss of data through Apple's own incompetence???

The solution is easy and cheap and I would say reasonable, why not create a stand alone sandbox, that is 32 bit compatible, that runs old versions of Final cut say back to version 3, and sell for example each version for say $20, and the app for say $99, so that if you need compliance you could buy compliance, I am not saying there needs to be any sort of maintenance by Apple, just warehousing of old code..Like going to buy parts for and older model car from the 1960's...You know there has been no development of the part, just some company selling old stock that they warehoused...

Apple is working hard to kill this aspect of the business, by taking away ports, screen size, screen option, remember matte screens? remember being able to replace parts, RAM, battery, internal hard drives, a couple of screws and you are back in business...

"Final Cut Pro X - Supporting less. Doing less", not wrong
Apple supporting less..doing less for a hell of lot more cash!!!!!

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10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 09:25 #97764

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Redifer wrote:

FCPX.guru wrote: We shouldn't be corporate loyalists. Am I just to blindly praise Apple? That's a cult (yes, CULT) I cannot join.


Spot on. I totally agree - though I may sound like a fanboy at times.

The thing is, as I see it, that Apples produces lifestyle luxury hardware, hip stuff. This conflicts with anything legacy in every possible way. FCP X is a streamlined, fast and in most respects user friendly NLE, *because* Apple broke with ancient ways and continues to do. It's a fundamental concept.

Remember the glee when Apple machines no longer had optical drives, and there was no more DVD-BD authoring?

I'm happy that this won't affect me now (regarding those codecs considered outdated), but if it did, I might then decide to jump ship and use Adobe on Windows. I guess what you underestimate is the degree of inconvenience you'd face when you make this transition. Adobe does listen, but it's inherently unable to reform. Or, to be fair, it does so in such tiny, incremental steps that it's likely to stack tracks in 2030. When there probably will be a totally different way to approach editing, and when FCP X looks ridiculously outmoded.

@MsJustine
This is getting old. Afaik there are already many ways to do what you need with third party software, and what you should have understood by now is that nobody misses another flavor of PR except you.

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Last edit: by Axel.

10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 09:36 #97765

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MsJustine "Apple - doing less for a hell of lot more cash!!!!!"

How much have you paid for FCPX since 2011?

How much WOULD you have paid for Adobe Premiere since 2011?

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10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 09:43 #97766

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What is getting old??? The facts are Apple are taking away functionality from devices that a decade ago was the bee's knees when it came to offline on the train editing, FCP studio was world class, it had everything you needed and more. For what it was back then Color was bang perfect for color correcting. The send to option was ideal and should have been brought forward.

Apple has the budget, and the loyalists to support 2 streams, the hipsters and the creatives, the hipsters and the bankers don't need a mac designed for video/audio/photo editing, we do...

The mac air and the lightweight macbook should be aimed at the bankers/lawyers and the macbook pro should be bigger, with way more ports, have the ability to swop out hard drives, etc.

10.4.4 was a decent enough update, if it is to be graded it would be a D:could do better... The limit of 30 saves sorry for 64bit a fail grade there, the timecode window yes, a passing grade but could have been improved ever so slightly..with a way to see how far out of sync.

maybe this is part of 10.5? We cannot know..

Rendering certain codecs obsolete at this point is way way to premature, no way are we that close, and what of my idea about a warehouse of old codecs you could buy for $20 along with a "sandbox" app of old versions of Final Cut, trust me there will be a day you will curse me for being right. I know I am right.

Archives come in all flavours, clients come back years later, needing this or that, it happens, or ig you work in tv news, you have decades and thousands, hundred of thousand hours of tapes from vhs, betamax, betacam, dvcpro, cd. dvd, all sorts of digital codecs, this will all become useless according to Apple.

Damian read my post again...it is not about how much I have paid, it is about the product of hardware, and we are getting less hardware for more money. Fewer ports, the new macbook in 2019, I wager $10 it will have no ports, wireless charging and bluetooth 6.0 for audio.....No ports is possible and in a way that is where Apple is heading.

I love fcp, both classic and X, they are way better than resolve and Premiere, just the path Apple is on to my mind the wrong path, it is going to end in tears, and I am sorry you cannot see that.

Please explain to me as I just am unable to grasp the concept of the ipad pro, it can only read external files that are video or photo, it has no 3.5mm headphone jack, it has no cursor/mouse support, if it is a pc killer, then surely mouse support, full file support, a headphone jack, at least 2 ports, 1 for power, 1 for a dongle, whatever, please Apple is heading down a pathway of failure, don't come crying when you one day realize this.

I know you will never admit it on open forum and as I have said before I hope I am wrong and if I am wrong I will be the adult I am and admit that, and if I am wrong I will do 2 things, apologise for being wrong, 2nd will be to delete my account here...I am safe as the path is obvious.

What is wrong with the 2 streams, it makes every sense, what does the "pro" mean in macbook pro, ipad pro??? I thought it was pro fessional... or is it per rectum output??

edit...only noticed after pressing submit "steams" I meant streams...will correct...

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Last edit: by MsJustine.

10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 10:35 #97767

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MsJustine wrote: FCP studio was world class, it had everything you needed and more. For what it was back then Color was bang perfect for color correcting. The send to option was ideal and should have been brought forward.



From an 8 year distance, you will admit that FC Studio was not very different from ACS. I was fit on Premiere Pro (that feels like a million years ago), and I made the switch to FCP 2.0 within a day or two, that much similar were both programs.

A send to option was *necessary* in FCS, but (similar to Dynamic Link) nothing to write home about in terms of intelligent software design or successful integration. Color was a different world, it only understood the very basics.

We will see how the "extensions" will be adopted by third party developers, right now the first three offer nothing I would desperately need.

But since you mentioned Color: maybe you didn't yet notice how far FCP's tools have advanced. With the overdue comparison viewer, you can now fully use the unrivaled Color workflow - within the NLE! Yes, "only" thirty saved reference frames does sound lame, but every professional colorist tells you that a too crowded "still store" makes the work harder, not easier. The whole purpose of reference is to enable you to limit your choices. Something that was hard to do before thursday (and I bitterly complained, I can show you, starting with the release of 10.4).

And the way they did it is really well thought out. Try it please. Grade a sequence, then start with the shot you consider perfect in every way, and from there jump backwards and forwards. It's really fast and precise. Looks primitive at first glance, but it "just works". That's what I'm looking for.

What is more, Motion isn't just FCP's appendix or a stand alone animation and compositing app. It's it's programmer. Through the API functionality, now that the CC tools are part of Motion, I predict that we'll see the color options in FCP explode. Send to anyone?

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Last edit: by Axel.

10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 12:45 #97769

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Redifer and Justine have their personal opinions, as do the rest of us. All partially based on myth, partially on fact, but it's all just personal opinion, with nothing pertinent to the subject of this discussion thread. Please, let's move on and get back on topic.

For television broadcast, the Frame.io Extension is already proving to be fantastic. In broadcast we use Frame.io LOTS AND LOTS DAILY! And this just speeds things up so much. Personally thrilled.

Compare Viewer is great. Batch export will come in handy on occasion. Compressor now being 64-bit is the best. My transcode times over the past couple of days at the station have actually taken HALF the time they used do.

Being able to lasso in whole Connected Storylines, OR only the clips inside it, that's a huge time saver for me, personally.

Some MotionVFX users are reporting issues, mostly keyframing, some other minor things, but I'm sure that will have a patch soon.

Color grading tools in Motion is really amazing. SO happy to see that, as I create motion and still graphics daily that need to match up to live footage.

And it all runs just find on my old 2013, 15" rMBP. My 3 year old Mac still eating through media fast and efficient. Gotta love it. That this is a minor second decimal place update shows how awesome this application is, and now affordable.

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Last edit: by Ben Balser.

10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 12:49 #97770

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MsJustine ...

A few questions for you.

Do you think Apple should still have a Macbook Pro with a DVD drive, a 17" screen, a USB2 port, a Firewire 800 port, a Thunderbolt 2, some Thunderbolt 3 ports all in one device?

Do you agree that the hardware that has remained has become significantly better? ie. Hard Drive speeds from 100MB/s to 2000MB/s, faster processor, higher resolution screen etc.

Did you know the iPad pro comes with an adaptor to allow you to plug in your 3.5mm headphones as usual? You can also get an external device that allows more inputs without losing the power input.

Do you think a touch screen device also needs a mouse? Have you ever needed a mouse to use your iPhone?

Apple are moving with habitual and technology trends and sometimes they define shape them.

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10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 12:59 #97772

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We've been using frame.io since pretty much day one and the Frame.io extension is a HUGE boost to our productivity. HUGE!

I've tried the Shutterstock one, which is pretty good but would be even better if you could drag and drop your purchases from their extension window straight in to FCPX.

Not tried the Ripple Training one. Anyone?

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10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 16:01 #97775

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Ripple Training one doesn't seem to be available yet.. Their demo shows "Getting Started..." but that one hasn't been updated since January. I suspect they're stuck in App Store Approval hell.
Extensions has certainly motivated me to give Frame.io a play.

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10.4.4 Released 18 Nov 2018 16:26 #97776

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cseeman wrote: Ripple Training one doesn't seem to be available yet.. Their demo shows "Getting Started..." but that one hasn't been updated since January. I suspect they're stuck in App Store Approval hell.
Extensions has certainly motivated me to give Frame.io a play.


If you have clients / collaborators, it's a No Brainer!

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10.4.4 Released 19 Nov 2018 07:54 #97787

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FCPX.guru wrote: Compressor now being 64-bit is the best.


Wait... that's new? How did it run previously? I thought all 32-bit apps were unable to run since High Sierra?

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10.4.4 Released 19 Nov 2018 16:07 #97791

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Re dropping "legacy media" support.
I can somehow understand that not all available codecs will be supported forever.
Like Sorensen, Cineform,...

But listing DNxHD/DNxHR as outdated is just wrong. Even if the current implementation was only 32bit.
Since Avid will certainly not drop Mac support for MC and ProTools there will be a 64bit implementation for sure.
Would be interesting to know what´s behind this?!
And hopefully they will release a more in depth list of the affected codecs...

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Last edit: by nils.dettmann.

10.4.4 Released 19 Nov 2018 18:32 #97793

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Perhaps Apple's way to limit DNx as a competing codec to ProRes. It's a way to force those doing cross-platform work to use ProRes as the standard. Consider that all the big competing NLEs are cross platform. Given it's OS level, on the Mac side, those NLEs may have to do some work. Just a guess.

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10.4.4 Released 19 Nov 2018 22:49 #97795

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nils.dettmann wrote: But listing DNxHD/DNxHR as outdated is just wrong. Even if the current implementation was only 32bit.
Since Avid will certainly not drop Mac support for MC and ProTools there will be a 64bit implementation for sure.
Would be interesting to know what´s behind this?!
And hopefully they will release a more in depth list of the affected codecs...


I don't think it's the video file that is the problem, but the encoder/decoder software (which runs inside the MacOS) supplied by the manufacturer needs to be 64-bit to work in the future. If the manufacturer considers something to be a legacy codec not worth updating the encoder for, then that says all you need to know about how they feel about their codec.

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10.4.4 Released 20 Nov 2018 08:39 #97807

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@cseeman
That was my first thought/fear.
But it´s only speculation and also possible that it is a licensing issue on Avids side.

@martinX
Do you know what DNxHD/DNxHR is? And read what I wrote?
It is certainly not "considered legacy" by the manufacturer (Avid) and probably one one of the most used codecs at least in feature post production...

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10.4.4 Released 20 Nov 2018 08:57 #97808

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Of course Apple has taking the route of not saying a thing about certain aspects, and that is their right to do so, it frustrates us as the consumer of their products that changes are being made that affect us, and we are not given any reasons.

Why Apple has chosen this route make no sense, surely be open about it, but to just state it is an OS issue is not the truth, there are ways around this, it is of great concern that Apple has decided barely 30 years into "digital" we are not going to support certain codecs, 30 years is a long time, but is it really?

How is this demand or lack thereof determined? Only looking at users in the US or Europe? What about Asia, India, Africa? What do users there use? MumbaiWood in India, Nollywood in Nigeria, who together produce more feet per year of film than Snottywood out in California does in a decade.

What is legacy in New York in 2018 is new stock in Mumbai or Lagos, or Cape Town in South Africa, costs of gear is high, and so replacements are not often replaced with new, but new old stock, FACT!

Broadcasters still use classic FCP and make it work, replacement programmes are just too expensive, and anyway if it works, why replace it?

So what is behind this sudden need to render obsolete? If it is a OS issue, then create a sandbox 32bit in a 64bit app, kind of a "dos box" parrallels/Oracle app that runs old codecs on top of a 64bit OS such as Mojave or whatever comes next!

It would sell and I am sure sell well, you buy for $99 or $199 the app, and for say $49, $99 depending on age of the OS old versions of MAC OS going back to version 1.0 , and for $29 per version, buy the version of final cut you need. This takes care of all future codec issues, it will come that one day in the next decade someone will need a way to access an old codec for whatever reason and damn locked out.

Sorry if this offends, I truly think this is a good idea, I would buy old versions, many I know would as thye have archives built up over decades and then one day locked out.

I am not saying MAC OS should support it, no, that is stupid and it just makes the OS bloaty and ineffective, a sandbox app is lightweight, it runs on top of the OS, and it comes preset with the codec you need, or could be installed with purchased codecs. The codecs are not upgraded, updated, static stand alone, nothing done to then other than parked on a server waiting to be sold...

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