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TOPIC: keeping optimised media as main media

keeping optimised media as main media 19 May 2020 00:40 #107300

  • steve223
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Hello Together,

it would be great to get some ideas. I'm a YouTube creator and shoot a lot of 4wd trips, so new trips every week. A lot of the footage I like to keep for reference and later use but to save space I was wondering if I could not make the optimised footage my master footage so instead of keeping the original media, and the optimised media (I know i can delete that) but why could i not keep just the optimised media given my work is in FCPX anyway so no re-creating of optimised media if I use one of the archived files?

Am I missing something? Does someon have a workfolow for that scenario?

Thanks a lot

Stefan

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keeping optimised media as main media 19 May 2020 01:12 #107302

  • Tom Wolsky
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You could convert the footage to ProRes in the Finder and import that into FCP.

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keeping optimised media as main media 19 May 2020 01:24 #107304

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You might consider whether you really need to optimize media at all. Unless you are unable to smoothly edit the original footage, optimized media is not necessary. In addition, the original footage clips will be smaller in size and at the best possible quality (even though optimized media is generally relatively lossless). You can always transcode to optimized media in the future if you need it.
Creating history....one edit at a time !

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keeping optimised media as main media 19 May 2020 06:02 #107311

  • steve223
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that is a good point, I was under the assumption Optimised was smaller if that is not the case it would be no benefit. I really should have no issues Editing on a 12 Core 2020 Mac Pro and Vega 64 but since switching to new MacPro and Catalina FCPX is running just crap slow and buggy (same addons as under Mojave)

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keeping optimised media as main media 19 May 2020 12:32 #107320

  • joema
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steve223 wrote: I'm a YouTube creator and shoot a lot of 4wd trips, so new trips every week. A lot of the footage I like to keep for reference .... I really should have no issues Editing on a 12 Core 2020 Mac Pro and Vega 64 but since switching to new MacPro and Catalina FCPX is running just crap slow and buggy (same addons as under Mojave)


Side point: the 2020 MP doesn't have Vega 64, the iMac Pro does. The Vega options for the MP are Vega II and Vega II Duo.

I upgraded many machines to Catalina, including my 10-core Vega64 iMac Pro, and so far haven't seen any performance problems.

However -- if you're shooting 4WD trips this implies H264 or HEVC codecs, probably 4k. Some codec variants can be difficult to edit smoothly on any Mac, even the mighty Mac Pro. This is because the T2 or AMD UVD/VCE hardware acceleration varies in how well it handles certain formats. E.g, 4k 10-bit All-Intra H264 from a Panasonic GH5 or S1 is very sluggish to edit. Likewise Sony XAVC-S is pretty laggy.

For us documentary and Youtube people this is frustrating, We'd love to have hyper-smooth editing of all common "Long GOP" formats without transcoding. That would eliminate creating proxies or optimized media. The problem is under the covers there is no single "H264" or "HEVC" format. There is a bewildering variety of encoding parameters, some of which work better with certain hardware accelerations, and others do not.

For each method of hardware (Quick Sync, T2, UVD/VCE) there are *many* sub-versions - each with their own limitations. A given sub-version might only work on a given resolution or bit rate or GOP length or with a certain "reference frames" count. This could be likened to a powerful car engine only running well on premium fuel. Anything outside that sweet zone and the transcode accelerator will fall back to less efficient methods or even pure software. This is poorly documented and no utility reveals it.

Your laggy performance likely comes from one of two sources: encode/decode or effects. 3rd-party effects vary greatly in their performance, and sometimes have version dependencies on the FCPX host process or underlying MacOS. I suggest you evaluate all your 3rd-party effects and make sure they are up to date.

Some plugins like Neat Video are very compute-intensive, but recent versions are much faster. However to fully realize this you must run the built-in Neat optimizer which runs a quick benchmark to evaluate all combinations of CPU cores and GPU, and recommends the best mix. It is in the Neat Video menu Tools>Preferences>Performance>Optimize Settings.

In general disable background rendering in FCPX preferences. Then delete all render files by File>Delete Generated Library Files>Delete Render Files>All. You can do a one-time manual render of the timeline via CMD+A to select all clips and CTRL+R to render. Afterward you can periodically re-render clips as needed. This avoids constant background rendering and building up of render files (which are never auto-deleted).

In general saving your projects with original camera media is OK. If that is compressed Long GOP media, it will be fairly small. You might have to rebuild proxy or optimized media before resuming work but optimized media is about 6x the size of 100 mbps H264, so the space penalty is large. Proxy media is somewhat fragile due to FCPX not providing relink, and if the drive or pathname ever changes (which often happens in a backup) the proxies won't work and usually cannot be fixed.

If you state more details about exactly what you're editing which is slow, we might be able to help. What codec, what camera, what effects. As many details as possible about the behavior.

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keeping optimised media as main media 19 May 2020 12:45 #107322

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Thank you very much for your detailed answer it's greatly appreciated.

I have quite a few cameras but mostly used for the daily trips would be DJI Osmo Action, DJI Osmo Pocket usually in either 4k or 2.7k.

On my longer trip documentaries, I also use a Sony A7iii and several DJI Drones.

I have the build it AMD Radeon Pro 580X 8 GB and bought an aftermarket Radeon RX Vega 64 which is also installed.

The main editing is on an 4TB Accelsior 4M2 but I also have a drobo 8D and a Thunderbolt 2 Promise.

I do have BG render enabled, good tip I will disable and see how that goes. I recently re-installed my OS again and installed everything from scratch it seems like as longer the machine runs say 8-10h the more spinning wheels after every operation become. Ram CPU etc. is not maxed by any stretch though.

The add-ons vary but are either LenoFX, Pixelfim and motion VX. unfortunately, I can't really pinpoint to any one particular addon (that would be easy to solve) around once a day FCPX will not recover from the spinning wheel and my only solutions are a force quite. I usually cant restart FCPX after that but also need to do a system restarted.

Part of the initial troubleshooting I also removed the Vega 64

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keeping optimised media as main media 19 May 2020 13:01 #107323

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Examine whether any of your DJI media is HEVC. To do this play it in Quicktime Player and do CMD+I. This shows the codec plus the HEVC bit depth (which the FCPX inspector will not do). There are definitely issues with some of that on FCPX 10.4.7 and 10.4.8. 4k HEVC material from our Inspire 2 will crash FCPX almost every time. We normally shoot ProRes but when testing it we shot some HEVC.

Also there may be some image quality issues on certain DJI HEVC variants. We saw banding on the Inspire HEVC and I think on the Phantom 4 Pro HEVC if shooting D-Log. That did not happen if shooting DJI H264. I think newer DJI drones have 10-bit HEVC which might be better.

Due to the current FCPX HEVC reliability issue, any DJI HEVC material should be transcoded to proxy or optimized media. In some cases FCPX may hang or crash during the transcode, so watch for that. If it does your only option is transcode it externally using Handbrake or some other tool, then import to FCPX.

If your HEVC is 10-bit you don't want to externally transcode to 8-bit H264 because you lose bit depth. You could use the free version of Resolve to transcode to ProRes 422, then import that to FCPX.

Re plug-ins, all current FCPX plugins except for Motion templates run within the process address space of FCPX. This means any bug in any plugin can crash or destabilize FCPX. Supposedly this will be improved in the future as plugin vendors move their products to FxPlug 4 which can enable out-of-process plugins, thereby preventing a plugin bug from crashing FCPX: developer.apple.com/documentation/profes..._minor&language=objc

Some plugin vendors have a reputation for producing more reliable products than others. MotionVFX is well regarded, Pixel Film Studios less so.

I suggest you first transcode all media to either optimized or proxy, then edit several days and see if it hangs. If so, then remove all plugins from Pixel Film Studio, delete/rebuild all cache files, then try again.

Do not run Chrome or any browser based on Chrome. It mis-uses the MacOS VideoToolBox framework and this can destabilize or crash FCPX.

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Last edit: by joema.
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