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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 02:15 #114898

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I captured the video as an 8K 29.97 ALL-I .mp4 file.

When I play it in the preview window it's choppy.

I'm using a 2020 iMac with a 3.8GHz Intel Core i7 and an AMD Radeon Pro 5700XT 16GB graphics card.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 05:41 #114900

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There could be a few reasons for †his. Your computer may not be powerful enough to smoothly playback that resolution. You can switch the viewer from "better quality" to "better performance" and see if that helps. You can try fully rendering the clip in the timeline and see if that makes a difference vs. playing an unrendered clip. And, the speed of the drive your media is on can have a big impact on playback, especially with 8K content. Please provide details of the drive you are playing back from, whether the internal iMac drive or an external drive (SSD, HDD, etc.). Also, let us know if you have optimized the media upon importing, (which would create a Prores version of the media), or if you are playing back the native non-optimized footage.
Creating history....one edit at a time !

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Last edit: by dgwvideo.

I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 06:14 #114902

Welcome to the forum!

DGW is correct. Can you do me a favor? Send me one of your 8K clips via wetransfer or any other way and post the link here so I can test it on different systems to see what would be the best solution.

Thanks!

- Ronny

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 07:35 #114903

What’s the codec and the bit depth?

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Last edit: by Tom Wolsky.

I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 11:48 #114908

I got my hands on a 8K Canon RAW file from the R5.

I can confirm that 8K RAW 30fps @2600 Mb/s plays flawlessly in Better Performance on my M1 MBP.

So please check the speed of the drive where the files are stored and try Better Performance playback in fCP to see if this helps. If it doesn't, upload a clip so we can test.

- Ronny

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Last edit: by ronny courtens.

I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 17:50 #114914

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trinko wrote: I captured the video as an 8K 29.97 ALL-I .mp4 file.

When I play it in the preview window it's choppy.

I'm using a 2020 iMac with a 3.8GHz Intel Core i7 and an AMD Radeon Pro 5700XT 16GB graphics card.

Any thoughts?..


According to Canon's R5 documentation, that is either 7680 x 4320 or 8192 x 4320, 10-bit 4:2:2, encoded intraframe using HEVC at 29.97 fps.

Even 4k HEVC is difficult to handle, and 8k is 4x that data per second. The only hope of smooth playback is if the CPU or GPU hardware acceleration (also application and system software layers) perfectly handle that exact format.

The 2020 iMac 27 uses an Intel i7-10700K "Comet Lake" CPU. That uses essentially the same version of Quick Sync as Kaby Lake, the CPU used in a 2017 iMac 27. It may not handle 10-bit 4:2:2 intraframe HEVC, or may not handle it well.

Historically Intel has been quite sluggish at adding and updating Quick Sync. To this day Xeon CPUs do not have Quick Sync at all. There is also fixed-function video acceleration hardware on the AMD 5700XT GPU, which is totally separate from the traditional GPU logic. There have been many versions of AMD's video acceleration logic, and in general it hasn't been as widely adopted as Quick Sync.

The Apple Silicon CPUs apparently have much more advanced video acceleration hardware, which is why even an M1 can play the Canon 8K material smoothly in FCP. That doesn't help all the people with Intel machines but at least in the future the situation will get better.

Your best current workaround might be creating proxies. Starting in 10.4.9, FCP has improved proxy features. See this Ripple Training video "Final Cut Pro 10.4.9 New Features" starting at 11:32:

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 20:13 #114917

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I'm confused. The file is mp4 not HEVC.

Also doesn't the GPU drive the graphic display performance?

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 20:16 #114918

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ronny courtens wrote: I got my hands on a 8K Canon RAW file from the R5.

I can confirm that 8K RAW 30fps @2600 Mb/s plays flawlessly in Better Performance on my M1 MBP.

So please check the speed of the drive where the files are stored and try Better Performance playback in fCP to see if this helps. If it doesn't, upload a clip so we can test.

- Ronny


moved the file to the internal drive and that doesn't work.

the default setting is "better performance"

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 20:18 #114919

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If I use proxies the final product will be at full resolution right?

I recorded 8k video because I was recording baby egrets on an island about 150 feet away.

My intent is to crop down to just the nest, even with an 800mm lens the baby egrets only occupy a tiny part of the scene, and end up with a HD or maybe 4K final video.

If I use proxies and crop will I get that result?

Thanks!

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 20:21 #114920

MPEG-4 is the framework, like QuickTime. HEVC is the codec. Both frameworks can use that codec.

The GPU handles the display but it doesn’t handle codec decompression.

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 20:25 #114921

Proxies are only for production not for output. If you want to do what you describe edit in a lower resolution project, maybe 2K do you can zoom into the frame without sacrificing quality.

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 21:26 #114923

If your goal is to zoom in as much as possible without quality loss, this is why you can do:

1. Select the 8K R5 clip(s) in the browser, R-click and choose Transcode media > Create proxy media. Make sure that Codec is set to ProRes proxy and not H.264. Let FCP create the ProRes proxy files.

2. Create a new Project (CMD+N). Click the Use Custom Setting button, the Project Properties window will open. In that window, set Video Format to 1080pHD and set Video Rate to the frame rate in which you have recorded your R5 clips. Then click OK.

3. Click "View" in the FCP UI and select Proxy Only.

4. Drop the R5 clip(s) on the timeline, then use the Transform tools (Scale, Position) to zoom and position the clip(s). You should be able to zoom in 400% without any quality loss.

Note: as you are in proxy mode, your zoomed in picture will not look sharp but you will be able to play the clip(s). To check the real quality, click View again and select Optimized/Proxy.

5. When you are satisfied with the result, make sure View is set to Optimized/Proxy and export your Project.

- Ronny

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 21:57 #114924

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Thanks!

However I started converting a very short 1GB file and it's been over an hour and it's only about 11% done though I was using the H.264 option.

Is that normal?

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 22:01 #114925

That’s why I said not to use H.264 but ProRes proxy.

- Ronny

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 08 Jun 2021 23:04 #114926

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well thanks for all the help from all of you.

I just managed to take one clip, generate a proxy, crop it, render it, and save it to an Apple device 4K file so the process works!

Given that I first used FCP yesterday I couldn't have succeeded without you folks help so thanks!

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 09 Jun 2021 11:20 #114934

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trinko wrote: I'm confused. The file is mp4 not HEVC.

Also doesn't the GPU drive the graphic display performance?


Your confusion is understandable, considering the official Canon manual does not mention the terms "HEVC", "H.265" or "codec".

However I believe all R5 8k modes use HEVC (aka H.265) and the 4k modes can use either H.264 or HEVC, depending on whether 8-bit or 10-bit: nofilmschool.com/canon-eos-r5-has-arrived

Even 4k 10-bit 4:2:2 H.264 codecs (from any camera) can be difficult to play smoothly, unless on Apple Silicon. 8k is 4x that data, so it's even harder.

When compressed "Long GOP" codecs were first devised, they were disparaged as consumerish and not for pros. Even today on DaVinci Resolve forums I seen people saying that. However pro cameras like the Panasonic EVA-1 use 10-bit 4:2:2 HEVC. It is the way of the future, since Blackmagic has never licensed BRAW on any other hardware and ProRes RAW is prohibited by the RED patent from in-camera recording.

Apple's M1 shows that it's possible for a well-designed CPU and NLE to smoothly decode "difficult" compressed codecs. It's unfortunate that Intel's Quick Sync can't provide that performance, even on their newest CPUs. Maybe that will guide future purchasing decisions for video editors.

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I can't get FCP 10.5.2 to play my Canon R5 8K video smoothly 09 Jun 2021 17:14 #114938

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joema wrote:

trinko wrote: I'm confused. The file is mp4 not HEVC.

Also doesn't the GPU drive the graphic display performance?


Your confusion is understandable, considering the official Canon manual does not mention the terms "HEVC", "H.265" or "codec".

However I believe all R5 8k modes use HEVC (aka H.265) and the 4k modes can use either H.264 or HEVC, depending on whether 8-bit or 10-bit: nofilmschool.com/canon-eos-r5-has-arrived

Even 4k 10-bit 4:2:2 H.264 codecs (from any camera) can be difficult to play smoothly, unless on Apple Silicon. 8k is 4x that data, so it's even harder.

When compressed "Long GOP" codecs were first devised, they were disparaged as consumerish and not for pros. Even today on DaVinci Resolve forums I seen people saying that. However pro cameras like the Panasonic EVA-1 use 10-bit 4:2:2 HEVC. It is the way of the future, since Blackmagic has never licensed BRAW on any other hardware and ProRes RAW is prohibited by the RED patent from in-camera recording.

Apple's M1 shows that it's possible for a well-designed CPU and NLE to smoothly decode "difficult" compressed codecs. It's unfortunate that Intel's Quick Sync can't provide that performance, even on their newest CPUs. Maybe that will guide future purchasing decisions for video editors.

I just bought a top of the line iMac with intel last summer.

I did so deliberately to give the Apple Silicon a rev or two to work out any compatibility bugs and to ensure that all the software I regularly use will be M1 compatible and run natively.

Fortunately I don't do video that much and I rarely need 8K, in this case I needed 8K and an 800mm lens :). , so I should be able to survive a year or two before buying an M4?.

Thanks for the insights.

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