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TOPIC: FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION

FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:00 #31877

  • Dave_EP
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I *really* hope they've improved the GUI responsiveness to adjustments. It took 9 attempts tonight to resize the event browser panel. The cursor was showing the correct "move" icon but holding the left button and dragging was completely ignored the first 8 times. C'mon, this is simple stuff!
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:02 #31878

  • plysat
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"It took 9 attempts tonight to resize the event browser panel."

are you running 10.0.9? Or are you on a Mac Pro? I ask because I used to see that some time ago, but it's not an issue now (10.0.9 on a 2012 loaded iMac)
Can't sleep? Try this: fcpxpert.net ;-)
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:03 #31879

  • Chazfest
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Couldn't agree more with this one. GUI responsiveness needs massive work. It's the one area that lags behind in comparison when I hop back into FCP7...
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:08 #31881

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plysat wrote: "It took 9 attempts tonight to resize the event browser panel."

are you running 10.0.9? Or are you on a Mac Pro? I ask because I used to see that some time ago, but it's not an issue now (10.0.9 on a 2012 loaded iMac)


10.0.9 on MacPro (2009) and I also see it on a (2012) MacBookPro too.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:14 #31882

  • Darren Roark
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I agree with that. When I have a larger event and project with more than four hundred clips it hangs so much. Refreshing the thumbnails takes too long. I have to stay in list mode with larger projects or it just beachballs more often than not.

I have to use Digital Rebellion's project repair way too often to stop this from happening.

I am on a retina MBP 15" with 16gb and a thunderbolt raid, it should work better than that.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:15 #31883

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"10.0.9 on MacPro (2009) and I also see it on a (2012) MacBookPro too."

The MacPro is - unfortunately for MacPro owners... of which I was one 'til recently - not great at running X, even if it's maxed out. The MacBook should be OK with the faster GPU and plenty of Ram, so that's a little odd. X actually isn't bad on my MB Air... that said, the GUI has gotten more responsive with every update, so hopefully that trend will continue... :-)
Can't sleep? Try this: fcpxpert.net ;-)
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:22 #31884

  • NocoDave
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This is all I've asked for since what in my opinion was the premature introduction of new features in 10.0.3. Polish off all the little bits and pieces. This basic performance stuff, renaming colour corrections etc. and complete the animation features of course. Then we'll have what we've paid for, after that they can charge away for new the features we haven't already paid for. As rightful consumers we can then make up our own minds as to whether or not we need or desire them and pay for them if we wish.

If the next is a paid update there will be no earlier version that can be considered as a complete option. I know Apple are massive on having all their customers on the latest versions of anything and everything. iOS 7 being free is an excellent way to maintain this. Charging for updates while previous versions are incomplete is not. I strongly don't want to see that happen, if it is what is planned and if works this time it will most likely be what is done every time.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:31 #31885

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Darren Roark wrote: I agree with that. When I have a larger event and project with more than four hundred clips it hangs so much. Refreshing the thumbnails takes too long. I have to stay in list mode with larger projects or it just beachballs more often than not.

I have to use Digital Rebellion's project repair way too often to stop this from happening.

I am on a retina MBP 15" with 16gb and a thunderbolt raid, it should work better than that.

Not sure how you do your organization or what is your workflow. But I would have the 400 clips broken i multiple Events for example:
Interview A
Interview B
B-Roll Category A
B-Roll Category B
or by
Scene 1
Scene 2

This prevent Final Cut Pro X become slow when working with a Event, problem is the launch time of the Applications.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 21:56 #31887

  • Tom Wolsky
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Really? Renaming color corrections is a deal-breaking feature? If you can't rename color corrections you don't think it would be worth paying for the upgrade?

What baud animation functions do you mean? What's the deal-breaker for you?
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 22:41 #31891

  • NocoDave
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No, renaming colour corrections isn't a deal breaker, just an example followed by an "etc." It would be a massive and simple improvement. I've not mentioned anything about deal breakers.

The issue I have may not even be one, it's more of a worry. That if the next update is a paid one the customer has been left with the option to either pay again to get 10.0.9 to what I see as being a satisfactory product worthy of it's previous charge, with the new charge being for the new stuff. Or to not pay and be left with a product of poor quality control for their money.

If we do end up in that position this is my worry, that it will set a precedent for the future of paid updates for FCPX. I just want to see consumers, including me, get the option to have a complete product for their money. A paid update at this stage, and if following suit, wouldn't allow for that. It would be an investment option where the consumer pays for a never ending and constantly building incomplete product.

A product such as this will inevitably be riddled with never ending problems and niggles. I just say, get it working, rock solid. Then build it in rock solid stages.

I've gone into this a bit and what is incomplete about animation before: I'm typing on my iPhone at the moment, if I get a chance I'll search and post links tomorrow.
Last edit: by NocoDave. Reason: Grammar/phrasing
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 22:51 #31892

  • plysat
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"I just say, get it working, rock solid. Then build it in rock solid stages."

Al due respect, had Apple done this we wouldn't be having this conversation as X wouldn't have been released until about when .06 came out and we'd all be on Pr or MC. ;-) Also, if that were the rule, there wouldn't be much software of any type available. lol
Can't sleep? Try this: fcpxpert.net ;-)
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 23:03 #31893

  • NocoDave
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I don't agree with that Charlie, I had concerns at the 10.0.3 stage. Apple were put in a corner in relation to certain feature exclusions supposedly making it a non pro app. If they had addressed the existing features at that time it would have been rock solid and by 10.0.6, or more probably earlier, the feature we got in 10.0.3 could have been added and I would have been perfectly happy to have paid for them at that time and state.

I've also mentioned before that it isn't just FCPX or just Apple, it's a cross the board I want to see higher standards/quality control in the software market. But with that said, there are software creators with respectable.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 23:08 #31894

  • Tom Wolsky
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I just don't think this is possible. I don't think it's possible to make any application, particularly of this complexity, which will be absolutely bug free and will satisfy every customer. The application is always in my view been very stable. I haven't crashed it in months and then it was probably my fault from having way too many apps open. For a paying app I think all you can do it look at what's being offered and decide fir yourself if it's worth purchasing. I'm still astonished by how many people are using FCP4 and 5. There's just now a thread on the Apple forums about how to get projects from FCP4 to FCPX.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 23:12 #31895

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I see what you're saying, but they really *had* to address the concerns at the time or nobody but hobbyists (not to cast aspersions on hobbyists!) would have adopted it. I certainly couldn't have used it without the stuff that was added early on. For me, it's been pretty darn stable since at least 10.0.6, and I've been using it pretty regularly since 10.0.3.
Can't sleep? Try this: fcpxpert.net ;-)
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 23:15 #31896

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"I'm still astonished by how many people are using FCP4 and 5."

Me too. We still have a few editors here on FCP 7, so I have to pop into it now and again. Kinda painful. Although honestly, anything with fixed tracks is kinda painful for me now. lol
Really looking forward to the next version of X. :-)
Can't sleep? Try this: fcpxpert.net ;-)
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 01 Oct 2013 23:21 #31897

  • NocoDave
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For a paying app I think all you can do it look at what's being offered and decide fir yourself if it's worth purchasing.


That's pretty much it, what I'm personally going to see when I look in the future, if this next update does turn out to be a paid one, is that I'll be making that decision based along the assumption that what is advertised most likely won't be complete and that Apple will ask me to pay again when it is. But, will also sell me more stuff to beta test at that time which I'll also need to pay for again at a later date.

I think In general we've fell into the trap of acceptance relating to low standards. It's not impossible to make rock solid software in this day and age, internal politics perhaps but not the code.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 02 Oct 2013 00:23 #31899

  • Disproportionate Pictures
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plysat wrote: "I just say, get it working, rock solid. Then build it in rock solid stages."

Al due respect, had Apple done this we wouldn't be having this conversation as X wouldn't have been released until about when .06 came out and we'd all be on Pr or MC. ;-) Also, if that were the rule, there wouldn't be much software of any type available. lol


That's a question I often wonder about.

It's all under the bridge now, but I think if Apple hadn't released 10.0 in July of 2011, then they wouldn't have had to work at a "released software" schedule for updates. I think if that was the case, then they could POTENTIALLY have been at a 10.0.6 stage of development (if not further) by NAB 2012, or essentially 1 year later than they did. If Apple had previewed a 10.0.6 at NAB 2012, and released a couple months later, I wonder if they woundn't have been further ahead. Would more people have waited another year and been happier with the result?

Impossible to say, I suppose.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 02 Oct 2013 01:05 #31903

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NocoDave wrote:

For a paying app I think all you can do it look at what's being offered and decide fir yourself if it's worth purchasing.


That's pretty much it, what I'm personally going to see when I look in the future, if this next update does turn out to be a paid one, is that I'll be making that decision based along the assumption that what is advertised most likely won't be complete and that Apple will ask me to pay again when it is. But, will also sell me more stuff to beta test at that time which I'll also need to pay for again at a later date.

I think In general we've fell into the trap of acceptance relating to low standards. It's not impossible to make rock solid software in this day and age, internal politics perhaps but not the code.


I don't think there's an NLE out there where they've fixed ALL bugs before moving to the next major version. At a certain point those problems get roped up and tossed into the next version.

At a certain point you have to ship. And at a certain point if you don't move on to the next version you're going to get left in the dust cleaning up your house while the next guy has already built the bigger, better house which still has problems but is much nicer to live in with a pool and a BBQ and a hot tub.

Though I thought FCPX was a good thing, I personally didn't move over until 10.0.4 in April of 2012. I needed Multi-cam and stable Broadcast Monitoring to commit.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 02 Oct 2013 05:01 #31910

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Totally agree with Disproportionate Pictures. There is no such thing as a "completed app", never was, never will be, doesn't exist.

Every piece of software in the world has bugs. That's the nature of coding. Read the forums for other top NLE's.

Just a personal rant here:
The FCP dev team released the version 1.0 of a whole new product with FCP X, based on a whole new development/release paradigm, to work with metadata and digital media in a very much needed, revolutionary way no one had ever dared dream of before. Well meaning that it would "evolve" over a 10 year period of development. I think they're doing a great job of accomplishing that very difficult task.

At NAB I was told by Apple that the hardest part of development, the part that takes the longest time is not coding the new features, or writing new code to bring back old features, but in figuring out "how to implement it in the best manner possible." The "design phase" if you will. That part takes a LONG time to do. And I for one am very grateful they take that time, and don't just slap together the same-old-same-old crap method of working.

Are some features slow in coming out?
Yep, for good reason.
And I for one am grateful for that reason.

Can FCP X stand up to the other pro NLEs? Well, I've always answered that this way; "Look at how desperatly Adobe responded to FCP X. They even wrote a whole new app to match us."
Last edit: by BenB.
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FCPX 10.1.0 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 02 Oct 2013 06:35 #31918

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At NAB I was told by Apple that the hardest part of development, the part that takes the longest time is not coding the new features, or writing new code to bring back old features, but in figuring out "how to implement it in the best manner possible." The "design phase" if you will. That part takes a LONG time to do. And I for one am very grateful they take that time, and don't just slap together the same-old-same-old crap method of working.

Are some features slow in coming out?
Yep, for good reason.
And I for one am grateful for that reason.


I couldn't agree more Ben and I'm grateful for it too.

I don't think there's an NLE out there where they've fixed ALL bugs before moving to the next major version. At a certain point those problems get roped up and tossed into the next version.


The computer software industry is in no where near the stage of evolution that it should be for its age. And again, it's not just Apple I'm talking about.

I do want FCPX to have a great future, like many of us here (pro and hobbyists alike) I jumped straight on it at 10.0.0 because I seen Apple had something great with their foundation that was based, and greatly improved, upon the same thing that gave Avid it's rock solid base.

What was available feature wise in FCPX 10.0.0 was the basic roots of the NLE.

I'm not really talking about bugs so much, I never have been. I'm talking about the same stuff I've been talking about since Apple released the 10.0.3 updates. I've not been happy, and have also been worried, since then about the development path of FCPX.

I'm talking about finishing off what is left incomplete, most of which has been since 10.0.0 and polishing up little things based on customer feedback.

If this stuff is taken care of before new features are even considered the bugs are easy to pick up and easy to clean. It's when the development is rushed (10.0.3) that things get all tangled up, bugs gets harder to Iron out and stuff that was previously not finished becomes more complex if addressed later at the same time as the new issues introduced with the new features that were built on top of old issues.

I strongly believe that FCPX would be a smoother, more complete experience today if 10.0.3 hadn't been a pressured feature update. I'm pretty certain we would have been further ahead, perhaps it would have allowed 10.0.5 to have been the release that many people see 10.0.6 (not me) as being but as a stronger, smoother base.

The FCPXML in 10.0.1 is probably the only thing I have seen as making sense to have been introduced at the stage of development.

Personally I've been in the position where I could get away without broadcast monitoring for the last few years, multi cam editing I don't do much, but I did do a 3 camera edit in 10.0.2 inside a synchronised clip. I worked in the same way as I did in Adobe Premiere before they introduced multi-cam in Pro 2.0.

I do have moral issues relating to the sale of any products. I definitely wont be jumping straight onto a 10.1 update if it is paid. This time I'll wait and see how it is received and how it is running. Not so much feature wise, and I'll try my best to predict if I'm going to be happy with how things are looking for future development.

I really do hope they get it right this time.

I think I've realised, for me, and relating to their 10.0 path if it ends with a paid update, it's not just the product they offer at the time of sale that's going to the be the deciding factor. It's if I can visualise, in some way, a development future that suits me.

Only they can decide if there will be any self respect brought back to their development standards.
Last edit: by NocoDave. Reason: Grammer/Typos
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